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Post by Dutchgull »

forevertufc wrote:In a previous post you pretty much accused the board of lining their own pockets, what makes you believe this to be the case ? evidence ?

You tell us there were other options, other than G.I, who were they ? name them ? evidence ?

Just out of interest.

Well said !

Some people have some strange delusions !
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Post by Southampton Gull »

Just to answer Dave, there was always interest from other parties. Masters was one and the Authers group to name just two. GI were happy to leave the current board in place so in a way they were lining their own pockets and now they've had their fingers burnt. Anyone remember the statement from Dave Phillips saying how excited us fans should be? Is anyone else excited by GI's plans? I'm certainly not.
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Post by Dave »

Yes, I can see how the board remaining in place had G.I gained control would have been to the boards advantage, to me it's how an individual interoperates 'lining their pockets' to me it suggests a person, or persons are syphoning off cash from the football club for their personal gain, which would be a very serious allegation, and one I'd advise individual posters to be careful in making.

I do not believe the current board are doing this, I do not believe there is the money in the club to even try, or for such an act to be worthwhile. We see lots of talk about the Angus transfer money and sell on money from Eunan, I've seen lots of wonderful equations and workings out around the net, but the old chestnut people always forget, any incoming money would surely be liable to tax, and would there be any agents fee's to pay out of this money, also wonder if, or how much 'historical debt' the club still has to repay, before people ask where's the money gone.

The reason why I asked the questions is, we can all make allegations, but you have to able to prove them, it's all very well saying there were other parties interested, I guessed this was case, just because there were other options, this does not mean to say they were better, good, or worthwhile options.

Unless we can name other parties with some certainty their interest was genuine, how can we quantify whether these parties would be, have been a good fit for the football club.

Masters haven't got a clue, other than his ownership of Truro City, Authers and TU fans Ltd, can't say anything for certain about them either, but judging by their behaviour across the forums, the content of what was written, and I believe Authers is known around the building trade, it's my unsubstantiated believe they'd have been a poor fit for the club.

Again it's just my belief the current board are guilty of some poor decision making, we've all been there, won't hang them for that, although reserve the right to critise , but I do not believe they're guilty of any wrong doing.
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Post by MelloYelow »

forevertufc wrote:In a previous post you pretty much accused the board of lining their own pockets, what makes you believe this to be the case ? evidence ?

You tell us there were other options, other than G.I, who were they ? name them ? evidence ?

Just out of interest.

It is the norm for Director's to be paid (if not salary) interest and proportional pay back of any personal loans (Thea being the exception writing off loans of £3 million and then gifted a 200k, open ended, interest free loan.) Admittedly I was not very succinct about the Directors payments but that's personal frustration for you!

As Southampton Gull says there is always interest from other parties e.g. Masters was one and the Authers group and no doubt others and who's detail like GI will be keep confidential.

Although not a supporter of a fan-owned football club, as some tout on here, there is merit in some of their arguments. Take Portsmouth Community Football Club (sorry Southampton Gull) who announced an operating profit of £118,000 in its first full year of trading, set against the backdrop of the club emerging from administration with no training ground, kit deal or commercial agreements, with the task of rebuilding trust and confidence from suppliers and stakeholders. the £14m legacy debt, which was reduced to £5m at the year-end and then fully repaid in September 2014 – two years ahead of schedule – negotiated with significant discounts

The Directors are business people and should be in a position to tackle a debt far removed from Pomey's £14m legacy debt without having to sell the family silver to GI to achieve it. I bet the Board wish they had look more closely at other options rather than jumping from the frying pan into the fire. I just hope they have not burned their bridges all at once and find ourselves handing over the keys to GI for loan default. Trust me GI will not be as compassionate as Thea.
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Post by Plainmoor78 »

:goodpost:
forevertufc wrote:Yes, I can see how the board remaining in place had G.I gained control would have been to the boards advantage, to me it's how an individual interoperates 'lining their pockets' to me it suggests a person, or persons are syphoning off cash from the football club for their personal gain, which would be a very serious allegation, and one I'd advise individual posters to be careful in making.

I do not believe the current board are doing this, I do not believe there is the money in the club to even try, or for such an act to be worthwhile. We see lots of talk about the Angus transfer money and sell on money from Eunan, I've seen lots of wonderful equations and workings out around the net, but the old chestnut people always forget, any incoming money would surely be liable to tax, and would there be any agents fee's to pay out of this money, also wonder if, or how much 'historical debt' the club still has to repay, before people ask where's the money gone.

The reason why I asked the questions is, we can all make allegations, but you have to able to prove them, it's all very well saying there were other parties interested, I guessed this was case, just because there were other options, this does not mean to say they were better, good, or worthwhile options.

Unless we can name other parties with some certainty their interest was genuine, how can we quantify whether these parties would be, have been a good fit for the football club.

Masters haven't got a clue, other than his ownership of Truro City, Authers and TU fans Ltd, can't say anything for certain about them either, but judging by their behaviour across the forums, the content of what was written, and I believe Authers is known around the building trade, it's my unsubstantiated believe they'd have been a poor fit for the club.

Again it's just my belief the current board are guilty of some poor decision making, we've all been there, won't hang them for that, although reserve the right to critise , but I do not believe they're guilty of any wrong doing.
:goodpost:
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Post by Dave »

MelloYelow wrote:
It is the norm for Director's to be paid (if not salary) interest and proportional pay back of any personal loans (Thea being the exception writing off loans of £3 million and then gifted a 200k, open ended, interest free loan.) Admittedly I was not very succinct about the Directors payments but that's personal frustration for you!

As Southampton Gull says there is always interest from other parties e.g. Masters was one and the Authers group and no doubt others and who's detail like GI will be keep confidential.

Although not a supporter of a fan-owned football club, as some tout on here, there is merit in some of their arguments. Take Portsmouth Community Football Club (sorry Southampton Gull) who announced an operating profit of £118,000 in its first full year of trading, set against the backdrop of the club emerging from administration with no training ground, kit deal or commercial agreements, with the task of rebuilding trust and confidence from suppliers and stakeholders. the £14m legacy debt, which was reduced to £5m at the year-end and then fully repaid in September 2014 – two years ahead of schedule – negotiated with significant discounts

The Directors are business people and should be in a position to tackle a debt far removed from Pomey's £14m legacy debt without having to sell the family silver to GI to achieve it. I bet the Board wish they had look more closely at other options rather than jumping from the frying pan into the fire. I just hope they have not burned their bridges all at once and find ourselves handing over the keys to GI for loan default. Trust me GI will not be as compassionate as Thea.
Thank you for your very informative reply, I have no personal frustrations, just happen to think the reason for our clubs current state runs much further back than this current board, and all the finger pointing, and crying over split milk isn't going find a way forward, not aiming that at you, meant in general.

I'm 50/50 on community ownership myself, bumped into a few well known TUFC fans over the summer who've made some good points on this issue, but comparing us to Portsmouth, not sure it's a good comparison, Portsmouth are still pulling average gates of nearly 17,000, just 2,000 down on their premier league averages, which shows the depth of feeling, whether you love them or hate them, Portsmouth supporters have for their club, Portsmouth as a club have it within themselves to recover from the position they find themselves, they will find a lot easier than us to attract investment, and with the backing of 17,000 fans will be able to raise money.

What did we see last week at Torquay, the team lost 2 games on the spin away from home, and seven days later 400 went missing of our home gate, shows the pathetic nature of some, of our clubs fan base, now that's a frustration I do have.

Community ownership has worked at other clubs at our, or similar level, but, if it came down to community ownership at Torquay, would our fans rally, support, dig deep, turn up to the games in temperatures of less than +7 degrees, and support the club unconditionally as I've asked for as a fan of the club, and that's what's going to be needed for a few season, while the club rebuilds itself, like to think so, but not sure.
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Post by MellowYellow »

Your right - the current state of affairs does run much further back than the current board and I will try to put my frustration aside (for the time being) and give a little more credit. The Boards average age is 70 so you do wonder why they put themselves up for the thankless task in the first place, so hats off to them for their valiant efforts to date.

If you don't like Pompey as an example what about Exeter who declared profit for 2014/15 of £1,642k.
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Post by MellowYellow »

If the Exeter example turns your stomach what about Wrexham Football Club who made a net profit of £11,587 for season 2014/15.
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Post by lucy6lucy »

MellowYellow wrote:Your right - the current state of affairs does run much further back than the current board and I will try to put my frustration aside (for the time being) and give a little more credit. The Boards average age is 70 so you do wonder why they put themselves up for the thankless task in the first place, so hats off to them for their valiant efforts to date.

If you don't like Pompey as an example what about Exeter who declared profit for 2014/15 of £1,642k.
Exeter are jammy bastards in getting GREAT LUCK IN CUP DRAWS.
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Post by MellowYellow »

Plus the the sale of Matt Grimes for £1.75 million was a huge financial positive.. Make's Eunan and Gus look like they were brought on 'Bargain Hunt' ... 'cheap as chips'.
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Post by tomogull »

MellowYellow wrote: Take Hereford Utd whose ground was central to their financial troubles, with the owners of the club handing the leases over to a development company from whom they had borrowed money to enable debts to be settled. Plans for a new 7,500 seater stadium were drawn up later to become redevelop of the current ground to include leisure facilities, however this was not supported by Herefordshire Council. The rest of the story is history.
And the development company was ........ Gaming International, or one of their subsidiary tentacles. I thought I read somewhere that the G.I. loan was to enable Nicho to bolster the squad - e.g. Shaun Harrad, Iffy Allen, Nathan Blissett, Jason Rees, Danny Raachi, Brendan Moore - in an effort to steer us away from relegation. So the Board were between the devil and National South. The only other interested parties mentioned by the Board were Peter Masters and Torquay United Fans Ltd, neither of which fill me with any confidence.

I agree that the Board should have scrutinised G.I. more carefully than it appears they did. If they had dug around a bit (as Dawlish Warren did on an excellent thread), they would, or should, have had nothing to do with them. This, I think, showed a lack of experience by Board members (I suspect Steve Breed warned against G.I., hence his departure). Whether the club is fans owned or not, it needs a strong leader at the top. Someone of the calibre of the chairman when Paul Buckle took us back into the league. He had to stand down because of health reasons (heart scare, I believe). He was so good I've forgotten his name ! :-/
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Post by Southampton Gull »

Alex Rowe ;-)
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Post by gullpower »

"What did we see last week at Torquay, the team lost 2 games on the spin away from home, and seven days later 400 went missing of our home gate, shows the pathetic nature of some, of our clubs fan base, now that's a frustration I do have."

To be fair forevertufc, the Dover game when the 400 went missing was on a bank holiday. I suspect a lot of those missing fans were away for the weekend or fulfilling family commitments. I also suspect that they were following the game on their phones and wishing they were there!
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Post by Dave »

I can see it now JK Rowling's new book, Harry Potter and the magical bank holiday get away, no that didn't happen, the majority didn't go away. The very fact it was a bank holiday weekend, and our attendance proves my point, the attendance should have gone up, not down.

The bank holiday consists of, all day Saturday, Sunday, Monday. A mans guide to a bank holiday weekend; Saturday = football, Sunday=rest day, Monday= Family time. :) All bases covered.

My point about a percentage of our fan base being pathetic stands, already know of 1 so called TUFC lives in Newton Abbot who is watching the game on T.V, lets see what todays attendance is.
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Post by Southampton Gull »

It was always going to be a lower gate. Not quite the end of the month so most people were skint and having to budget for kids still off school and a long weekend, added to those that did get away it's more than understandable that the gate was down.

I still say the Torbay public are apathetic though ;-)
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