Who will be here next season in the NLS?

Rjc70 · Post by **Rjc70** » 17 Apr 2018, 01:05

I might be wrong, but given that the disgraceful local rag refuses to post anything about Osborne’s previous stadia promises elsewhere and the outcome, there is a large number of our fanbase who simply do not know and therefore to call them ‘doormats’ may be a bit harsh.

It wasn’t that long ago I read someone post on one of the sites, (it may have been here) ‘let him have his stadium if he wants it’. If or when the tone changes, which it will, the cry of ‘if he’s saying it’s a new stadium or we will fold, let him have it’ will inevitably follow from anyone unaware what Osborne involvement led to in Bristol, Reading, Milton Keynes etc..

With the local authority now denying access to FOI requests regarding discussion of the Plainmoor freehold, I would completely understand anyone deciding to just go to away matches. I also understand those who will still go to Plainmoor while Osborne is owner. No point in searching for or finding fault in your fellow supporter. Something we all have in common, which Osborne does not share, is our love of Torquay United.

Neal · Post by **Neal** » 17 Apr 2018, 06:44

I've been a lone voice on here about this, one reason I don't come on here much these days. I know yorkieandy and maybe one or two others sort of share my views but it's not enough to do anything.

I tried to post messages to bring things to a head ages ago. Call Osbourne's bluff, boycott and yes if that means the club folds so be it. We woukd then have to start a new club. There was NO support for that view, just me. So given that, the only route for me is to distance myself from the club and the fans.

There are 2 ways this will go, Osbourne gets his new stand etc and the club will be a Tennant of his. That will be the end. A very wealthy rich football supporter buys the club as a plaything. That would be OK to me, but was is the probability of that, not high in my opinion.

If you were a property developer looking for an opportunity. This club was it.

Apathetic fan base, never going to take any direct action.
Fan base so naive that would accept anything, and so used to failure.
A council desperate for money and a political makeup that would suit a developer.
A local media that would not have the balls to say it how it is.

What a golden opportunity that is.

If any of you think next season will be easy, just wait and see. Staying fulltime, well so called, won't be enough.

Yorkieandy · Post by **Yorkieandy** » 17 Apr 2018, 07:59

The term 'doormats' IS harsh Rjc70 but I used that term to describe how I feel about some fans' approach to the situation. Which is pretty much take everything that gets chucked at you without so much as a word and continue to attend as though it will miraculously get better without doing or saying anything.

Really I was just using that terminology as an example but didn't intend it to be derogatory. I suppose it is though and so apologies to anyone who took it the wrong way.

As I said earlier in the thread, fans should be able ( and are) to support the club the way they see fit and that's something I've not respected. I have simply tried to force my views on others and hoped it would have the desired effect but as Jerry points out, that only serves to get peoples backs up which is understandable.

I am with Neal here and yes, we share the same views about what would be best for the club and also that we think next season will be a struggle in NLS but we have to accept that others don't share these views.

The bit about withdrawing that Neal spoke about though struck a chord with me and is exactly what I felt and did.

Bxm Foxy · Post by **Bxm Foxy** » 17 Apr 2018, 13:07

So, we're top of the NLS next year, got Truro away on a Saturday, how many do you think we'd take down there??? I'd love to be in the wetherspoons or in Skinners, rammed to the rafters with TUFC fans!!!

Teigngull · Post by **Teigngull** » 17 Apr 2018, 17:19

Bxm Foxy wrote: ↑17 Apr 2018, 13:07 So, we're top of the NLS next year, got Truro away on a Saturday, how many do you think we'd take down there??? I'd love to be in the wetherspoons or in Skinners, rammed to the rafters with TUFC fans!!!

Great question BXM , why don't you open your own thread with that exact question ?

arcadia · Post by **arcadia** » 17 Apr 2018, 18:12

The people on this forum saying that the NLS is poor well that's because they don't want to be in it but Maidstone and Ebbsfleet have started well in their first season in the National League so the standard is not that different but the grounds and crowds will differ.

Plainmoor78 · Post by **Plainmoor78** » 17 Apr 2018, 19:01

arcadia wrote: ↑17 Apr 2018, 18:12 The people on this forum saying that the NLS is poor well that's because they don't want to be in it but Maidstone and Ebbsfleet have started well in their first season in the National League so the standard is not that different but the grounds and crowds will differ.

Part time Maidstone have played us 5 times since they won promotion to national league in 2015/16 and 5 times they have beaten us. Why do so many people think the NLS is going to be a cakewalk?

westyorkshiregull · Post by **westyorkshiregull** » 17 Apr 2018, 19:47

Don't forget we are downwards after several seasons of utter crap ...it would feel different if we were promoted from the southern premier and with some feel good positive vibe around the place.
Agree with foxy , could be some great turnouts if we do well. I wonder if some games we would out number the home team

merse btpir · Post by **merse btpir** » 17 Apr 2018, 19:51

It'll be no cakewalk any more than National League has been a cakewalk since we dropped into it.

People who think that way are idiots and it'll be the same old problem if the preparation is not spot on, which it hasn't been at Torquay for years. Remember how that plank Hargreaves thought he was going to take us straight back up ~ failed ~ and has never got a management job since. Remember how Nicholson thought you could just set your stall out not to go down and he hasn't worked since.

One day the penny will drop in Torquay that you can't live on past glories (as if there ever any) and having an impressive ground at a modest level gives you no advantage at all; but a disadvantage because it makes everybody's visit their Wembley. Now we've got people looking forward to being Billy Big Bollocks and packing pubs out in Truro............it's like 14 year old playing football in the park with 9 year olds isn't it!

I ask you; Truro!

westyorkshiregull · Post by **westyorkshiregull** » 17 Apr 2018, 20:35

Merse I don't think foxy was making out in anyway about bring Billy big bolox. Think point was simply about the support we could expect IF we doing well in the national south. New to forum and is a football and torquay fan through and through

Plainmoor78 · Post by **Plainmoor78** » 17 Apr 2018, 20:54

Also not mentioned is what happens if home crowds dramatically plummet. Surely that will mean parts of the ground are mothballed leading to a very sterile atmosphere.

Teigngull · Post by **Teigngull** » 17 Apr 2018, 20:55

westyorkshiregull wrote: ↑17 Apr 2018, 20:35 Merse I don't think foxy was making out in anyway about bring Billy big bolox. Think point was simply about the support we could expect IF we doing well in the national south. New to forum and is a football and torquay fan through and through

Yeah, c'mon Merse I think you're better than that, even if others don't, .
All foxy is wondering is what sort of level of support we could muster if we were riding high in the NLS in our likely ' local derby ' & we've got a good ratio of away support, as you know, can we maintain that level ?
Give the guy a break Merse, it's a pretty valid question judging by the poll results at the beginning of this thread.
Also there are others on this forum who deserve your wrath more, you know who they are.

Arrywithnobrain · Post by **Arrywithnobrain** » 17 Apr 2018, 23:55

merse btpir wrote: ↑17 Apr 2018, 19:51 It'll be no cakewalk any more than National League has been a cakewalk since we dropped into it.

People who think that way are idiots and it'll be the same old problem if the preparation is not spot on, which it hasn't been at Torquay for years. Remember how that plank Hargreaves thought he was going to take us straight back up ~ failed ~ and has never got a management job since. Remember how Nicholson thought you could just set your stall out not to go down and he hasn't worked since.

One day the penny will drop in Torquay that you can't live on past glories (as if there ever any) and having an impressive ground at a modest level gives you no advantage at all; but a disadvantage because it makes everybody's visit their Wembley. Now we've got people looking forward to being Billy Big Bollocks and packing pubs out in Truro............it's like 14 year old playing football in the park with 9 year olds isn't it!

I ask you; Truro! :@

Remember how Owers said Torquay weren't rubbish any more? Remember how long ago he said it? Remember how much better he has made the team? Remember that he will be in charge of the team next season? More memories to stack alongside Hargreaves and Nicholson in case you have some kind of dementia that forgets the last six months.

MellowYellow · Post by **MellowYellow** » 18 Apr 2018, 01:23

With pending relegation to NLS there are various different school's of thought amongst the Torquay faithful regarding the failure; some blame the players, some blame the manager (or Head Coach), some blame the General Manager and some blame Clarke Osborne, the club chairman.

Unlike his predecessors Gary Ower's is not the manager of Torquay United, he is the head coach. If you are the manager, you decide many things about the club. But if you are a head coach, your responsibility is to play better and try to improve the players and to get positive results which since his arrival he has dismally failed to do. The head coach is not the same as the manager. If its not, why not just call Owers a manager? That because he is not the manager, he is a head coach. Nicholson was a manager, his responsibility was not only to coach the team but to also drive the team coach. (amongst many other duties)

Owers certainly has a lighter work load than his predecessor as he is just a head of a department. His department is to solely train the team. The reference to him being a manager at his previous job in Bath where he was seen to be more successful in his position, is a hint that Owers himself must be feeling some frustration regarding his role. Clearly, Owers has a complete lack of true control over the team sheet, purchases and other such major decisions at the club. So who is behind this? Of course, Mr Osborne. So why bother with a Head Coach at all, Osborne? If you insist on limiting their involvement in big decisions. No doubt this is why Nicholson was quickly shown the exit door after only four games. He was not playing ball and was not going to be a puppet for you to blame when things go wrong; discardable, replaceable?

With all this in mind, it has to be questioned: Does Clarke Osborne fancy himself as a manager? As a #Football mastermind? One search on Google and you'll see him listed as 'Businessman' first, 'Chairman' second and 'Manager' not at all. Giving his personal 'lackey' the title of General Manager solves nothing. I think Osborne needs to remind himself of this and let the men who know what they're doing handle the rest. So Mr Osborne if Owers is to stay next season make him the manager and accountable for when things go wrong.

Plainmoor78 · Post by **Plainmoor78** » 18 Apr 2018, 01:49

Good post Mellow. Years ago a manager would run more than the first team, he would literally be responsible for the running of the whole club from the coaching staff down to the hiring and firing of the tea lady and answerable only to the board.
Some were office based such Herbert Chapman at Arsenal who relied on a team of coaches headed by George Allison, others were track suit managers who spent time on the training field.
Nowadays thanks to growing club infrastructure and the complexity of trying to run a business this is no longer possible. Virtually all so called managers are actually head coaches now.
Owers is probably directly answerable to Harrop who may or may not stick his awe in from time to time. If you want to make Owers a traditional manager you have to get rid of Harrop. As much as many would like that to happen it probably wont.

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