Chris Hargreaves services?

[arcadia]

Howe has shown throughout his career that he has been able to get the best out of his teams. In some cases he had no money to work with, in others he has been more fortunate.

He was lucky this season to have the ability to make a loss, but as mentioned this merely levels the playing field in the championship. All the relegated prem teams are likely to have got more than this is parachute payments alone. Fulham spent nearly the same amount on one player last summer.

Using Howe as a comparison to CH this season doesn't work, two completely different scenarios. However using Howe when he took over at Bournemouth the first time and CH last season is an accurate and justified comparison.

I think he should get one more season (less if it goes worse than this season) as I don't think we can afford to sack him and take a chance on someone else. He needs to learn from his mistakes though, something he has at times not shown this year.

No decision on anything can be taken until the owner are named and decide if they are going to pay him off which could be on the cards. Who knows!

[tomogull]

With all due respect tommo, Hasselbaink had managed second tier Belgians Royal Antwerp for a year before accepting the Burton job and let's not forget that Burton had been on an upward curve for the last few years also and in a commanding position when Rowett left. Even Knill could have come in and got Burton up. So Hasselbaink had some experience and had been left a penalty kick for promotion near as dam it.

Eddie Howe I believe laughed in the face of a minus 17 points deduction in his first season in charge of Bournemouth under difficult circumstances also and got them safe from the drop. This was the first indicator that he had something about him as a manager for a rookie. When you compare this with Hargreaves taking over Torquay also a rookie, CH couldn't achieve the same outcome.

The point i'm trying to make is that yes, whilst I still think a wizened old head should be sought, there is no doubt that a rookie with the scope and potential for success could achieve it like Howe did from the very first whistle.

Torquay managers have not been 'tough old heads' in recent years as you rightly point out.

Buckle was inexperienced but had the buying power to get out of jail.

Okay, Andy - let's forget Hasselbaink. I had forgotten he had managed a Belgian club before coming to Burton and as you rightly say, Burton were on the up when he was appointed. But I think you've made my case for me ! I overlooked Paul Buckle (how could I ever forget Mr. Buckle ???). He was a rookie manager when he was appointed. He got us out of the Conference, admittedly with good financial support, but he also took us to the Div 2 Play Off final which was over achievement for a manager in his third season. Let's put another young manager in the mix - Gary Monk. No previous experience but Swansea have their highest points total in their Premier Div history. Hargreaves has had a tough baptism in his first full season. If he's honest with himself, he will know his side has under-achieved and he has made mistakes along the way. But I'm all for giving him a further three months of the new season to see if lessons have been learned.

By the way Andy, York soon dispensed with the services of a 'tough old head' (Nigel Worthington) in favour of a young-ish manager I actually thought Worthington was a shrewd manager. Is Chris Brass still at the club, by the way? So let's agree to differ slightly. You may prove to be right about Hargreaves but I think he deserves more time after inheriting the dross of Knill's signings (on two year contracts) that took us down to the Conference.

[Sunnysideup]

Howe has shown throughout his career that he has been able to get the best out of his teams. In some cases he had no money to work with, in others he has been more fortunate.

Have you asked many Burnley fans about their thoughts on Howe??

[leetufc]

Have you asked many Burnley fans about their thoughts on Howe??

I'm sure they won't be fond of him because of the way he left, but it doesn't change the comment about his management ability.

He finished 8th and 13th in his two seasons at Burnley - not ground breaking, but certainly not poor.

He signed Ings, Trippier, Mee, Shackell and Vokes whilst there, players who were vital to Burnley going up, and he signed Charlie Austin for them too. Not a bad legacy to leave.

[Yorkieandy]

Okay, Andy - let's forget Hasselbaink. I had forgotten he had managed a Belgian club before coming to Burton and as you rightly say, Burton were on the up when he was appointed. But I think you've made my case for me ! I overlooked Paul Buckle (how could I ever forget Mr. Buckle ???). He was a rookie manager when he was appointed. He got us out of the Conference, admittedly with good financial support, but he also took us to the Div 2 Play Off final which was over achievement for a manager in his third season. Let's put another young manager in the mix - Gary Monk. No previous experience but Swansea have their highest points total in their Premier Div history. Hargreaves has had a tough baptism in his first full season. If he's honest with himself, he will know his side has under-achieved and he has made mistakes along the way. But I'm all for giving him a further three months of the new season to see if lessons have been learned.

By the way Andy, York soon dispensed with the services of a 'tough old head' (Nigel Worthington) in favour of a young-ish manager I actually thought Worthington was a shrewd manager. Is Chris Brass still at the club, by the way? So let's agree to differ slightly. You may prove to be right about Hargreaves but I think he deserves more time after inheriting the dross of Knill's signings (on two year contracts) that took us down to the Conference.

:Oops: Ok fair do's tommo. I think I should be diplomatic and state that we both have valid points and neither of us incorrect.

It's refreshing to have a debate with someone out there in torquayfansforumland who doesn't make instant ignorant dismissals about someone just because they no longer support the same football team as them so thanks.

For me Hargreaves actually disappointed me a lot more in the way he approached the survival bid than he has done over the course of this season. This season hasn't been great but he hasn't really got any excuses left after next season has finished so like you say, it's just a case of watching and waiting. I think inexperienced managers can make a real fist of things sometimes unless they are John Carver. It all depends on a lot of things coming together I guess but ability is one important aspect. As you mention York I thought I could tie this in. Russ Wilcox did amazing when he took over Scunny and got them up, his first managerial post but things soon went wrong. He then took the post at York and many of us were concerned that he had only experience of getting a winning team up and not keeping a losing one up. We now know that he has kept York up comfortably in the end and that gives him more strings to his bow which bodes well for next season, the last at Bootham Crescent before moving into the brand new Community Stadium at Monks Cross.

Touching on another similarity between York and Torquay (apart from both realising that Ryan Jarvis was shite) is the management styles of Worthington and Ling. Both dour tacticians, both preferred to be hard to beat and both reaching the play offs with a poorer side than many at the top by nicking millions of 1-0 wins whilst not playing particularly well. Ling got found out by Cheltenham likewise Worthington by Fleetwood. I was unfortunate enough to witness much of Worthingtons last 3 months in charge before he got the boot in October and he paid the price for signing a lot of players on 2 year deals in the summer who weren't good enough to deliver his rigid style of playing with success. Like myself and many others at Torquay, when you're playing shite and winning 1-0 who cares? (I did actually, I voiced my disapproval on many occasions of Ling's methods even though we were flying) but when you start losing and still playing shite then any manager is in trouble. Worthington was indeed shrewd but put out incredibly boring sides which was ok when it was going right but it did for him this season with the poor start. I guess football fans are the same the world over and not just Torquay fans. Some were appealing for fans to see past the lack of entertainment and stick with NW much like many did with Ling believing that stability was needed and something could be built. Torquay had no real option due to Ling's unfortunate illness but York did and decided to dispense with his services. It had all got a bit stale. Wilcox took an almighty age to get things to turn but this he did in the end.

To be honest, some of the York players this season are worse than their yellow counterparts that got relegated by some distance and it really needed half a team of loan players to get us by. NW's signings have been shocking and many still have a year to run and won't see the light of day in a red shirt again I don't doubt. Marvin McCoy and Femi Ilesanmi both full backs have been disturbing and give me Kev Nic and Dale Tonge any day. Malvind Benning and Stephane Zubar were brought in for defensive cover as was Middlesbrough midfielder Brad Halliday who sometimes filled in. Lindon Meikle is basically a smaller Billy Bodin. All the gear and no idea. Lots of pace, trickery, flicks and nothing at the end of them. Hasn't played for months and never will again. Olejnik was brought in for a flapping Micheal Ingham and that was even after another 2 keepers had been used by York this season including another loanee Alex Cisak. Ryan Jarvis was shipped out after getting sent off one game and he won't be back. Coulthirst was added and not been the best of success stories. Emile Sinclair was signed , scored a few then played like bambi on ice for a while then got injured. The list is endless. I think the difference between York and Torquay is that Wilcox has identified the areas we're short on and brought in adequate replacements. Knill and Hargreaves especially let's not forget brought in a load of loanees to be fair to the board on that score but by and large they were frigging useless or not used appropriately.

Brass is nowhere to be seen around York these days and for many of them it's best that way. :whip:

That's it I guess.

[Yorkieandy]

I'm hoping that CH grasps the nettle. What's the point in wanting to be proved right? I couldn't care less either way for me personally but for many of you good guys out there it would mean something to shout about and that can only be a good thing for you.

[stefano]

tldr; or another yawnfest! As Brucie would say zzzzzzz; Dave SG was absolutely right to say he doesn't take any notice of what you think as you are not a TUFC fan and probably you don't even know yourself who you support (unless of course you leave a note for yourself for the morning when you fall to sleep!).

Tommo is being nice because he is nice. Not because he likes you or thinks that choosing a different team to support every day is clever or big!

Hope you enjoy your couple of minutes with York City. Also for the gratification of us thick Devonians please do let us know when you move on to another club. Very little amuses me these days. But you do! Best wishes always ....

[Southampton Gull]

Hit the nail on the head there Stef. I could never identify with someone like Andy who can withdraw their support and give it to another team at the drop of a hat. That's why it's far from ignorant to have no interest in his ramblings. He left us for, supposedly, Derby and then tries to convince us all he's a diehard York fan all of a sudden. Oh and then he abuses the privilege of using our forum to attack our club, managers and players as well as other forum members who have tolerated over 10,000 posts of mostly inane drivel.

Andy, York are welcome to you, I can only imagine how much their supporters are enjoying your contributions on their forums

[Neal]

Unfortunately this site has become very stale and to be honest boring. Most topics have been round the block several times, there are the usual contributors (not many these days). And I wouldn't be surprised if the ones that don't contribute so much have got bored with it all. Theres the continuous moaning from the usual suspects, the opinionated who think their views are correct and everyone is wrong. I told someone recently that I contributed to this site, and they said it was a bit "sad", made me think a bit, is it a bunch of saddos voicing opinions that basically no one actually takes any notice of, but we think they do. Some do seem to spend an awful lot of time on here, for what purpose.

For me I enjoy the match reports from people "Who have actually gone to the bloody match", but not from those who basically voice an opinion about how we played and didn't go, that is a bit sad.

I asked myself why I come on here, its to get the latest info on the club, but actually no one really knows, its all complete guesswork, so whats the point.

The answer to the thread, no unless they have got loads of money to waste paying him up. And I don't think they will have so I would rather give what any money they will invest (wrong word I know) in players wages.

[Dave_Pougher]

Hit the nail on the head there Stef. I could never identify with someone like Andy who can withdraw their support and give it to another team at the drop of a hat. That's why it's far from ignorant to have no interest in his ramblings. He left us for, supposedly, Derby and then tries to convince us all he's a diehard York fan all of a sudden. Oh and then he abuses the privilege of using our forum to attack our club, managers and players as well as other forum members who have tolerated over 10,000 posts of mostly inane drivel.

Andy, York are welcome to you, I can only imagine how much their supporters are enjoying your contributions on their forums

Someone mentioned he was related to Merse is that correct?

[Sunnysideup]

I'm sure they won't be fond of him because of the way he left, but it doesn't change the comment about his management ability.

He finished 8th and 13th in his two seasons at Burnley - not ground breaking, but certainly not poor.

So you havnt then?

The ones I bumped into during the summer were glad to see him go, not annoyed at him for the way he left. They couldnt see any progress in team performance on the pitch and thought it was getting worse, despite the players recruited and money spent on them.
But hey, what would they know. They're only Burnley fans

[leetufc]

So you havnt then?

The ones I bumped into during the summer were glad to see him go, not annoyed at him for the way he left. They couldnt see any progress in team performance on the pitch and thought it was getting worse, despite the players recruited and money spent on them.
But hey, what would they know. They're only Burnley fans

That last comment is uncalled for. I never once intimated that Burnley fans weren't entitled to an opinion or that their opinion was worth less than mine. All fans are entitled to an opinion, be them Burnley or Bournemouth fans, or anyone else. That is what makes forums interesting.

I didn't ask any Burnley fans because I don't know any. That's a fair comment that they couldn't see themselves progressing under Howe. They are more likely to know how they were performing than I am having seen them more regularly than I have.

My point of view as an outsider was that in 7 years of management Howe has three promotions with Bournemouth and helped lay the foundations at Burnley for them to go up under Dyche.

[Gloomy Gull]

........are being used by BT Sport right now.

He is a pundit on the Rovers / FGR match on TV !!!

[Burnhamgull]

Unfortunately this site has become very stale and to be honest boring. Most topics have been round the block several times, there are the usual contributors (not many these days). And I wouldn't be surprised if the ones that don't contribute so much have got bored with it all. Theres the continuous moaning from the usual suspects, the opinionated who think their views are correct and everyone is wrong. I told someone recently that I contributed to this site, and they said it was a bit "sad", made me think a bit, is it a bunch of saddos voicing opinions that basically no one actually takes any notice of, but we think they do. Some do seem to spend an awful lot of time on here, for what purpose.

I asked myself why I come on here, its to get the latest info on the club, but actually no one really knows, its all complete guesswork, so whats the point.

I told another supporter that I had posted on here recently and his response was "do you still bother with that?" Made me think too.

[SuperNickyWroe]

Unfortunately this site has become very stale and to be honest boring. Most topics have been round the block several times, there are the usual contributors (not many these days). And I wouldn't be surprised if the ones that don't contribute so much have got bored with it all. Theres the continuous moaning from the usual suspects, the opinionated who think their views are correct and everyone is wrong. I told someone recently that I contributed to this site, and they said it was a bit "sad", made me think a bit, is it a bunch of saddos voicing opinions that basically no one actually takes any notice of, but we think they do. Some do seem to spend an awful lot of time on here, for what purpose.

For me I enjoy the match reports from people "Who have actually gone to the bloody match", but not from those who basically voice an opinion about how we played and didn't go, that is a bit sad.

I asked myself why I come on here, its to get the latest info on the club, but actually no one really knows, its all complete guesswork, so whats the point.

The answer to the thread, no unless they have got loads of money to waste paying him up. And I don't think they will have so I would rather give what any money they will invest (wrong word I know) in players wages.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion - good, bad or indifferent.
And not everyone will agree as we know.