Torquay United v Hartlepool United - 31/8/13

[ROADRUNNER]

seems to me some people are never happy, well done alan knill for having a go back, the guy saved us from the drop and now 5 games in they are having a go, for christ sake get a bloody grip, get behind the manager and the team, we are not man city or chelsea, he his doing his best on a tight budget.

[Chris B]

Not since the promotion season under Leroy have I seen a Football League team come to Plainmoor so intent on securing a clean sheet, and so utterly incapable of scoring. It would've been a travesty had Hartlepool's late chance won it for them.

The first five minutes were as quick and full of intent as anything since Buckle left. We simply should've scored, with chances for Chapell and Hawley. Our momentum was lost after the referee allowed Steve Howard to have five minutes of treatment on the pitch for a cut lip. Kudos to Downes for seeing Howard off – he may've posed a genuine threat had he got in the game.

The rest of our performance was full of industry, but the lack of genuine creative quality in the central midfield is so evident. Hartlepool's high defensive line and compact shape made it difficult to break them down. A few times Ball and Chapell timed their runs behind really well, and there was some good link up play between the forwards. Fact is, though, we can't rely on lofted balls from Downes and the full backs to break down opposition. And, yet, we created more than enough to win the game. Frustrating.

[taunton_gull]

The main problem today wasn't a new one and has already been raised - Harding and Mansell do not work effectively as a central pairing. It is hugely frustrating - we are solid enough at the back (albeit Cruise should be in for Nicho), we are dangerous in the wide areas and useful up front. Today on so many occasions the ball came into BH or LM and one of three things happened - the ball went backwards, the ball went sideways or the ball went straight back to the opposition. When you haven't got a player in the middle of the park who can dominate and make things happen you are always going to struggle. There's no doubt Manse is a club legend but I wonder whether he would get a game at many Conference clubs these days, how he was named MOTM I will never know. Unfortunately Harding was completely the wrong player to sign and play alongside him as based on what I've seen there's not one ounce of dynamism in his body - he is no different to Morris in this regard. As far as Mansell and Nicho go I do wonder whether Knill who is still early in his tenure has found it difficult to leave either out based on their status at the club - I hope this is not the case. The fact is for all his faults a certain manager of the past would not be afraid to make that decision and neither should Knill.

He obviously recognises this is a problem as can be seen by the replacement of Harding by Lathrope on more than one occasion but this is a complete waste of time in my opinion. What's more annoying (and it's been done to death) is the fact that we have someone in the squad who can't get on the bench yet was seen by many (myself included) to be the natural successor to O'Kane. If the Lathrope change is a waste of time why not at least have NC on the bench to try something different when we need to. It's not as though we have got to look for extra money in the budget to do it. I will be very disappointed if Knill doesn't try something different on Tuesday. He said he would give it 10 games but I think a lot of people can see where we're at in this regard. I didn't want to sound so negative, overall I remain upbeat about the squad we've assembled but what I saw today made me realise without a change in the middle of the park (whether that's NC or a new addition) we are going to be much further down the table than we should be.

Roll on Tuesday! I hope to come down and witness a much improved display - opposition sides won't get any worse than Hartlepool that's for sure.

[Oil Beef Hooked]

I'm not having a dig, moan, groan or winge here, but I couldn't understand the jeers from some fans in the Bench, especially when we were passing the ball around at the back. We were patient in our build up play today and was looking for the defence splitting pass. At least we were generally keeping possession, which makes a pleasant change from the hoofball we're used to watching.

[DevonYellow]

I'm not having a dig, moan, groan or winge here, but I couldn't understand the jeers from some fans in the Bench, especially when we were passing the ball around at the back. We were patient in our build up play today and was looking for the defence splitting pass. At least we were generally keeping possession, which makes a pleasant change from the hoofball we're used to watching.

You've got to love the plainmoor crowd at times. I've lost count of the times some sections of the crowd have moaned when we pass the ball around patiently, only for the same fans to whine again when the ball gets hit forward quickly!

[brucie]

Possibly one of the oddest matches that I have ever seen. We were quite simply awful. Lets make no bones about it. Yet we still created at least half a dozen clear cut chances to win. Hartlepool were probably the worst professional side I have ever seen. God forbid they nearly won it as well - their young forward missed an open goal in injury time.
Knills assessment of how well we played was quite frankly staggering.
As has been commented on already the atmosphere was non existent. The PA system didn't work. It was the normal shambles and we are only two home games into the season.
I am sure that the lack of atmosphere has something to do with the boring football on offer. For all Knills lauded gung ho approach the football is actually worse than watching Lings team. Tip tap the ball between the defenders for five minutes and then punt it forty yards to one of the wide men only for it to be cut out and headed back by one of opposition centre halves.
Knill was here at the end of last season and we didn't play anything like this.
Personally I don't see that Harding is to blame. Playing Nathan Craig wouldn't make one jot of difference. We don't have any strikers - Ball and Hawley have scored one between them all season and its not difficult to see why. Ball tried hard - Hawley was hopeless.
Niall Thompson should have been given a go instead of the pointless introduction of Lathrope.
Really today was that bad it wouldn't encourage me to return in a hurry.

[chunkygull]

right, here we go then, my first viewing of torquay united 13/14 in action.

well, i cant really add much to what people have to say about the first few minutes of the game. hartlepool were jittery at the back and we opened them up a few times with ease. we really, really should have scored then, but it didnt seem feasible at that point that the game was going to be 0-0. we were very unlucky not to win, i didnt see how the offside "goal" thing panned out as i was sat up the other end of the pitch, but the game should have been out of sight by then. it would have been typical daylight robbery if hartlepool had snatched that one at the end, but hey, a points better than nothing after that moment.

i dont have any major concerns in the team so far, i saw quite a few positives.

there were the moments when chappell had a really hot spell on the wing, although his crosses were poor. hawley looked a real handful with his movement, there is a good signing and with service he will get goals. i didnt think tonge or nicho were as slow or as bad as some have made out (but hartlepool were crap), nicho 2nd half had a few effective moments going forward, but it still wouldnt hurt to give cruise a shot. downes was superb, pearce was ok, but he did give away a few really silly free kicks 2nd half. mansell for me, didnt really do much wrong, he is a worker and a trier, nothing special but he didnt give the ball away like i have seen him do in past games.

the team tried hard to pass the ball around well and keep possession, especially during a spell in the 2nd half. the play started from the back which was nice and although it didnt get far very often because the ball was just being knocked across the pitch in the middle, at least we were trying to keep it instead of hoofing it anywhere.

as usual though, what do the crowd want, the team knocked the ball about trying for an opening, which is difficult when 10 men are behind the ball. they were probing, and teasing it around, and yes we did create chances, but some are still yelling and moaning for the ball to be hoofed forward aimlessly with little chance of getting it. also then, the same fans moan that we give it away too easily when we hoof it.

our best chances in the 2nd half did come from passing the ball around on the deck and being patient, i will never knock our players for that. i get sick of seeing aimless hoof and hope balls coming to nothing, which we indeed did still have plenty of those at times also. we could definitely do with a creative player to unlock the door, but we did make chances today.

there is potentially a good side there ready to bust out and win games. there will be goals there, but that is down to the decision making at vital moments, that was something really lacking today, certain things were done at the wrong time or not done at the right time, but that comes with games.

the only other, and my main concern is the movement of players, as touched upon in the "balance of the team" thread it is so important, there was so much space at times today, but not many players using it or moving around to help their team-mates and to recieve the ball. there were a few who just stood around waiting for it. i know its easy to see it when sat in the family stand and it is only league 2 but hawley was spot on with it.

im not going to slag any players off, nobody was that bad and i certainly would not give any torquay united player any stick at the game. regards to what a few have said about harding, he did play a part in some of our possession passing, 1 pinged ball stands out, but he was anonymous for a lot of the time, a few of the others looked static and mediocre but not bad, there is potential there.

i was really disappointed like everyone else that in the end the game finished 0-0, but i saw some positives, we were ok and i felt if we had got 1 when we were well on top we could have got a few more.hartlepool were terrible though.


just seen a couple of posts that were done whilst i was writng this -

Oil Beef Hooked wrote:
I'm not having a dig, moan, groan or winge here, but I couldn't understand the jeers from some fans in the Bench, especially when we were passing the ball around at the back. We were patient in our build up play today and was looking for the defence splitting pass. At least we were generally keeping possession, which makes a pleasant change from the hoofball we're used to watching.

by DevonYellow » Today, 21:21
You've got to love the plainmoor crowd at times. I've lost count of the times some sections of the crowd have moaned when we pass the ball around patiently, only for the same fans to whine again when the ball gets hit forward quickly!

brilliant guys, the point i was exactly trying to make, spot on.

[tomogull]

Two points from three home games. Whilst I accept that the players are still getting to know each other's game, I am beginning to get a little concerned. We should have won easily this afternoon - Hartlepool were the poorest side I've seen at Plainmoor for some time. What's the odds on their manager being one of the first to get the sack this season?

The service to Hawley and Ball was dreadful - both from the wings and from midfield. Aaron Downes was yet again our best player by a mile. As has been posted time and time again, the balance of the side is wrong. Certainly Lathrope showed more commitment and determination when he came on.

[Ippop]

Please note..... This is merely detail taken from other fans forums in respect to Knill (not my personal opinion) "knill is a dog fight manager who generally supports long ball, rough style football" "Alan Knill is a solid manager but his players linked with him are not world beaters so don't get your hopes up" ..... Just a couple I found with little searching, I was never Buckles biggest fan but at least we played football! Why employ wingers with all this potential if you continually play aerial balls giving then little chance of winning the ball, I agree with the point about building play, it's important, and silly comment made about Mansell passing ball sideways as is that not how you move teams and create space?? I don't expect a 5 nil win every game nor do I expect league 2 football to be always impressive but as a fan of football and TUFC it would be nice to have a team that plays as a unit within budget, rather than spend the budget on 30+ strikers that probably will give you a similar return to Yeoman. I am disappointed yet again we have a manager that seems to talk the talk without walking the walk... Now lets address the midfield and attack soon please.....

[chunkygull]

Please note..... This is merely detail taken from other fans forums in respect to Knill (not my personal opinion) "knill is a dog fight manager who generally supports long ball, rough style football" "Alan Knill is a solid manager but his players linked with him are not world beaters so don't get your hopes up" ..... Just a couple I found with little searching, I was never Buckles biggest fan but at least we played football! Why employ wingers with all this potential if you continually play aerial balls giving then little chance of winning the ball, I agree with the point about building play, it's important, and silly comment made about Mansell passing ball sideways as is that not how you move teams and create space?? I don't expect a 5 nil win every game nor do I expect league 2 football to be always impressive but as a fan of football and TUFC it would be nice to have a team that plays as a unit within budget, rather than spend the budget on 30+ strikers that probably will give you a similar return to Yeoman. I am disappointed yet again we have a manager that seems to talk the talk without walking the walk... Now lets address the midfield and attack soon please.....

spot on, i agree, similar to mine and a couple of others points, when you watch a lot of the footballing sides, the ball goes back and sideways a lot, prodding and probing, pulling the other team about, and then - bang, killer ball, strike, goal. we are missing that bit, but we did create chances today, it should have worked, we should have scored and won the game.

but thats football.

[Modgull]

Can't believe the negative nature of many (not all) of the posts on this thread.

Brucie's comments are particularly incomprehensible. Were you actually at the game? You weren't in your usual seat!

Certainly it wasn't a polished performance but it was the best home performance of the season to date and showed that we are moving in the right direction as a team. We at least played energetically for the full game rather than just one half. There were several positives and even Bodin showed more yesterday than I have seen for many months (still shocking when he had a sight at goal though). The middle defensive pairing looks as though it is gelling faster than the Downes - Saah pairing and Tonge is way better than Oastler last year. Up front Ball looks good but let down by the service and Hawley is a class act at this level. Chappell was the pick of the midfielders and we now have pace on the wings where it was badly missing last season.

It is in the centre of midfield where we lacked a little creativity - Harding does not look like the answer although even he showed an improvement on previous games I had seen him play.

The problem was that Hartlepool came to the match intent on not losing, having 10 men behind the ball and only rarely showing an interest in scoring a goal. They were also a very big side. I thought our response, to play patient probing football, building from the back, was infinitely better than playing hoof ball and I thought those in the crowd who moaned showed how little they know about the game. They would probably have also moaned if we HAD played direct and then lost the ball.

I counted 17 attempts on goal (so we did actually open them up) and 6 on target (which I agree is not good enough!), some of them really good chances so on another day we could have won the game easily.

I was sat near to the guys who riled AK and I think they were unjustified but certainly not abusive - the first comment was along the lines of "you're scratching your head Alan (which he was at the time!), so are we - don't you know how to change it?" Storm in a teacup really but I hope AK isn't going to show the same sensitivities as Ling did in the early part of last season.

Looking forward now to Tuesday night against Pompey!

[gullintwoplaces]

Mostly agree with a lot of the posts above, although not of course the usual negative, extreme garbage from the usual B suspect. Chunkygull's comment above is spot on in my view. Yesterday's game was frustrating and a poor spectacle for the crowd, largely due to the clear intention of the very, very, very, very poor Hartlepool side to strangle the game. No wonder they strangled a monkey. I can only see one place for them and that is the Blue Square (or whatever it is now called). We started so well, almost scored, and looked like we were going to score a shedful. If we had scored at that point then I think we would have ripped them apart. Then Hartlepool feigned a serious injury, I was hoping the plonker (Howard?) would get sent off in the end, he would have done if he had not been taken off at half time. The monkey hangers got their heads together and put up a brick wall to destroy the game as a spectacle.

We were restricted to passing across the field so many times. The patient build up stuttered many times because of a final poor pass, although we did break them open to create a few decent chances that were squandered. Downes was first class, and to be honest we were very strong at the back. Ricey looked confident and in charge and the defence worked well in all aspects of their game. In midfield we ran into a brick wall, not sure that we have the creativity there to open up some of the dour defensive sides that will come to Plainmoor this season. I don't have the answer, but it would be good to feel that Knill will try other options. Billy Bodin was OK yesterday, but again he was frequently knocked off the ball as soon as he got it by a "robust" challenge. Up front Chappell looks a great prospect, although his final cross was often overhit yesterday. I think that Hawley and Ball are a decent enough pairing up front, I like Hawley's approach and feel he will do well for us.

The atmosphere was very poor. Not sure if this had anything to do with the PA. I believe that we should open up the away end for the Torquay singers for a few games. Just try it out and see if it works, just remember how much noise a decent away following makes from that end. The sound from the singers gets lost in the popside. What is the point of holding the away end empty apart from a small cost saving (and it surely is a small saving, there are more than enough security gorillas around the ground to send a few to the away end?).

[brucie]

Here we go again the normal garbage from the garbage maker. Howard feigned injury? - so thats why he stayed off the pitch for quite a while getting treatment. So what advantage did that actually give his team errr nothing because they were down to ten men for that time.
Do you mean Chapell looked a great prospect last week? - because yesterday he booted nearly every cross into the family stand in the first half.
The atmosphere was poor because the football was simply boring.

[bixieupnorth]

how he was named MOTM I will never know.

because it was his 300th league game, was always gonna be so i imagine??!

[wivelgull]

I agree completely with brucie (apart from his opinion of Hawley, whom I thought played well). The crowd were silent because there was nothing to become excited about. I'm fed up with leaving Plainmoor feeling disheartened (and with a 50 mile drive ahead of me). I can't remember when I left a game feeling exhilarated and enthusiastic. It's still the same old boring stuff. WE WANT PROMOTION! - that's the bottom line, not endless struggle and tedium. I do agree with other contributors in saying that Hartlepool were the worst side seen at Plainmoor for many years; the fact that we couldn't beat them - and nearly lost - speaks volumes for our chances this season.
Like most other contributors, I agree that it's obvious that we need a midfielder. Mr. Knill has spoken of using the loan system - now's your chance! Also, driving home from the match I listened to Radio Devon; Mr. Knill is a master of spin. How anyone could put a brave face on that performance is beyond me, and yet.....and yet....there are some reasonable players in the side : Hawley, Downes, Pearce, even Rice; but there's far too much dead wood.
I certainly won't be going on Tuesday and I must say I'm not feeling too keen on many more Saturday day trips. it's all very well if you live in the town and can walk to a game, but try driving 100 miles each time - for what?