Give Hargreaves A Chance

Post by **SuperNickyWroe** » 13 Apr 2014, 20:35

Bomber wrote: This isn't a valid comparison, Wes Saunders had been out of the game for five years working in his family clothing business, CH had learnt his trade at Exeter and latterly at Bournemouth as a coach - so he had earned the right to be offered the job at least.

Perhaps could have had Dave Byrne as his No. 2 instead of Lee Hodges, but I don't think the club could have afforded Budgie.

or, perhaps, we could have picked someone else to have been our manager.

tomogull · Post by **tomogull** » 14 Apr 2014, 00:36

forevertufc wrote: Harding the most under rated player we've had in along time, a large amount fans simply don't like him , Harding will never win here, he could score a hat trick and some fans will still say he's crap, pretty rough when face doesn't fit.

WHAT ?????? It's nothing to do with his face not fitting - a large amount of fans don't like him simply because he IS crap !!! I don't care what his record is at previous clubs, for us he has been dreadful. He has cost us goals - for example, reacting too slowly at a corner against Oxford, allowing Smalley to run across him and score, and the goal he 'set up' when he headed across his own goal in one of the recent 1 - 0 away defeats. Even 11 year olds are taught not to pass the ball across their own goal. My biggest complaint about him is that he chickens out of tackles that he has every chance of winning. Believe me, I have seen many poor players over many seasons at Plainmoor and Harding is right up there amongst them. He came with the reputation of (quote) 'the game seems to pass him by'. Sums him up admirably.

Sunnysideup · Post by **Sunnysideup** » 14 Apr 2014, 07:29

tomogull wrote: He has cost us goals - for example, reacting too slowly at a corner against Oxford, allowing Smalley to run across him and score, and the goal he 'set up' when he headed across his own goal in one of the recent 1 - 0 away defeats.

Over the course of this season, individual mistakes by Pearce, O'Connor, Downes, Nicolson, Tonge, pretty much anyone who has played this season, have all cost us goals at times.

Post by **Dave** » 14 Apr 2014, 09:20

Sunnysideup wrote: Over the course of this season, individual mistakes by Pearce, O'Connor, Downes, Nicolson, Tonge, pretty much anyone who has played this season, have all cost us goals at times.

Exactly Sunnysideup. Nicho has cost us about 20 goals this season, yet the popside still sing "Nicholson, Nicholson" Benyon has cost us points to and yet the popside still sing "we got the boy from up the road, Benyon, Benyon" Has every thing to do with your face fitting.

tomogull · Post by **tomogull** » 14 Apr 2014, 13:32

forevertufc wrote: Exactly Sunnysideup. Nicho has cost us about 20 goals this season, yet the popside still sing "Nicholson, Nicholson" Benyon has cost us points to and yet the popside still sing "we got the boy from up the road, Benyon, Benyon" Has every thing to do with your face fitting.

I'm not defending Nicholson or Benyon, but at least they both put in an effort - I have yet to see Harding break into a sweat. Guy Branston described some of our players as gutless bottlers. There is one who is head and shoulders above anyone else in this respect !!

Post by **Gulliball** » 14 Apr 2014, 17:57

With hindsight, not signing a striker last summer is the biggest factor in our relegation. We have a pretty decent side on paper, and have competed in most of the games we have been in, but even when we have played well, we have not won games because we have not scored enough goals.

It is quite similar to our relegation from L1 in 2004/05. We had 6 goalkeepers on loan throughout the season, who were either awful or (Phil Barnes) recalled from their loan spell to cover an injury at their parent club. Marquis is the only one to come in and look the part, the rest have been a conveyer belt of mediocrity. By the time we signed Andy Marriott (or Coulthirst for this season) it was too late to save us from the drop.

Hargreaves has had a chance to sign some loanees to cover this, and has found the right one too late. For this he should take a share of the criticism, but last summer was the chance to replace Rene and we didn't.

I am disappointed by Hargreaves' spell in charge, given that we have continued pretty much exactly as we were before. You assumed his strength would be getting players up for the fight, like he used to as captain, however we lost 6 games last month, all without scoring, to all but relegate us. Nothing has really changed since he took over.

This summer is massive. Hargreaves will still be the manager, and there will be a big overhaul of players. We need to sign a striker, and also a few with recent experience of the Conference. That was hugely beneficial to us last time.

Post by **Dave** » 14 Apr 2014, 19:20

I pretty much agree with all of the above post, all though wouldn't 't blame Knill W.R.T signing a striker, he signed Hawley because he didn't have the money to sign anything better, also a very good reason when Guliiball says about players with conference experience to keep a player like Harding who has won that division as a player.

hector · Post by **hector** » 14 Apr 2014, 20:39

Gulliball wrote:With hindsight, not signing a striker last summer is the biggest factor in our relegation. We have a pretty decent side on paper, and have competed in most of the games we have been in, but even when we have played well, we have not won games because we have not scored enough goals.

It is quite similar to our relegation from L1 in 2004/05. We had 6 goalkeepers on loan throughout the season, who were either awful or (Phil Barnes) recalled from their loan spell to cover an injury at their parent club. Marquis is the only one to come in and look the part, the rest have been a conveyer belt of mediocrity. By the time we signed Andy Marriott (or Coulthirst for this season) it was too late to save us from the drop.

Hargreaves has had a chance to sign some loanees to cover this, and has found the right one too late. For this he should take a share of the criticism, but last summer was the chance to replace Rene and we didn't.

I am disappointed by Hargreaves' spell in charge, given that we have continued pretty much exactly as we were before. You assumed his strength would be getting players up for the fight, like he used to as captain, however we lost 6 games last month, all without scoring, to all but relegate us. Nothing has really changed since he took over.

This summer is massive. Hargreaves will still be the manager, and there will be a big overhaul of players. We need to sign a striker, and also a few with recent experience of the Conference. That was hugely beneficial to us last time.

A really good parallel with our relegation of 9 years ago. 2005 was so frustrating - to go down on goal difference and know that one goal extra, or one less goal conceded somewhere during the season would have saved us and the next year we would have played Nottingham Forest and other big teams but the penny-wise/pound-foolish approach cost us, as it has done this season.

tomogull · Post by **tomogull** » 14 Apr 2014, 22:41

forevertufc wrote:I pretty much agree with all of the above post, all though wouldn't 't blame Knill W.R.T signing a striker, he signed Hawley because he didn't have the money to sign anything better, also a very good reason when Guliiball says about players with conference experience to keep a player like Harding who has won that division as a player.

Er, um ...... Danny Stevens, Kevin Nicholson and Elliott Benyon have won that division as players ??

Post by **SuperNickyWroe** » 14 Apr 2014, 23:27

tomogull wrote: Er, um ...... Danny Stevens, Kevin Nicholson and Elliott Benyon have won that division as players ??

ah yes, stevens - the player who couldnt get a contract with aldershot in the conference this season...........

Post by **Gulliball** » 14 Apr 2014, 23:58

Technically Stevens, Mansell, Nico etc finished 3rd and 4th in the Conference, only Harding won it (with Aldershot). But that's being pedantic, you need a spine of players who won't be shocked turning up at part-time grounds against teams playing 11 men behind the ball, and we have a start in that, but could still do with a few more.

Sunnysideup · Post by **Sunnysideup** » 15 Apr 2014, 09:01

forevertufc wrote:I pretty much agree with all of the above post, all though wouldn't 't blame Knill W.R.T signing a striker, he signed Hawley because he didn't have the money to sign anything better, also a very good reason when Guliiball says about players with conference experience to keep a player like Harding who has won that division as a player.

Hindsight being a wonderful thing, if we have a chance to sign a striker for next season, someone like one of the following,

C McDonald Gillingham, N Wells Bradford, N Ajose Peterborough, K Lisbie Leyton Orient, C Westcarr Walsall, L Griffiths Wolves, J Hanson Bradford.

should we sign them?

All have got pretty much identical scoring records in League 1 to that of Hawley last season.

Gullscorer · Post by **Gullscorer** » 15 Apr 2014, 11:32

If some of the loanee players from higher divisions which CH signed turned out to be duds, how can we trust those League One players to be any better? I would never say never, but it sounds like too much of a gamble, and I would think long and hard before signing any of them. Which is what I'm sure CH will do. The nature of his retained list will depend upon the division we'll be playing in next season, but in any event I suspect he'll be relying less on loan players next time, and instead bring in a good mix of players to build a regular team to play the kind of football needed for success.

Post by **Scott Brehaut** » 15 Apr 2014, 12:21

Gullscorer wrote:If some of the loanee players from higher divisions which CH signed turned out to be duds, how can we trust those League One players to be any better? I would never say never, but it sounds like too much of a gamble, and I would think long and hard before signing any of them. Which is what I'm sure CH will do. The nature of his retained list will depend upon the division we'll be playing in next season, but in any event I suspect he'll be relying less on loan players next time, and instead bring in a good mix of players to build a regular team to play the kind of football needed for success.

The point about League One players "sunny" was trying to make, was that Hawley scored a decent amount of goals last season at a higher level, therefore it stands to reason that he should have had no trouble this season in a lower league - and that if we signed any of those listed, they should have no issues too.
However, as witnessed, Hawley isn't a goal machine at this level and there is, therefore, no guarantee at all that any striker will do the business for us, regardless of which league they were in.

Gullscorer · Post by **Gullscorer** » 15 Apr 2014, 13:49

Actually Scott you're right. Experience/observation tells us that there's no guarantee either way as to a player's future performance when he moves to a new club. Although his past record should of course give some indication. What's more likely to affect his performance is the team in which he plays. A good player is more likely to have the opportunity to display his talents if he's playing in a good team around him. More difficult if he's in a poor team with low morale, which has been the case with the Gulls for a long time. It's up to CH to rebuild this, otherwise next season is going to be another difficult one. Can he do it? I think he will. But I'm glad I'm not a betting man..

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