Takeover of the club at an advanced stage

Post by **Southampton Gull** » 30 Mar 2016, 16:12

Ah so you thought you were being funny.....................

Gloomy Gull · Post by **Gloomy Gull** » 30 Mar 2016, 17:02

I often hear of players being unsettled by off field issues but it seems peculiar to me. My work output isn't affected by any boardroom shenanigans (and we have had plenty!).

Do these things really affect a players performance? Surely once they "cross the white line" they are fully focused on the task at hand.[/quote]

If they aren't, they bloody well should be!

knightmaregull · Post by **knightmaregull** » 30 Mar 2016, 17:30

For me, this is a very concerning development. I have spoken to a number of people with knowledge of the potential investor and all have reacted in the same manner. All we can do is hope that the current Board truly do have the club's best interests at heart and that the terms of the deal will be structured in such a way as to ensure the playing future of the club is preserved, whatever grand ambitions the new owners may have in terms of the stadium, development etc etc. My concern is that these guys know what they are doing and have done it before. We are clearly in a desperate situation and they will be looking to exploit that. We also have a weak Council known for screwing up deals such as Oldway Mansion.

The bottom line is what possible interest could these guys have in the club if it's not to asset strip it? Why would they have any interest in the history and future of the playing side of things? Why would they not be delaying the deal to see whether we get relegated and go part time (surely critical information for anyone looking to buy a football club)?

I include below a post of mine from 29 January which seems more than relevant again today:-

I have just finished a wonderful book by David Goldblatt called The Game of our Lives - The Meaning and Making of English Football. It's a little slow to get into but then goes on to give a nostalgic look back at the game of old and offers thoughts as to how it has ended up as it is (an absolute mess and sad reflection of the modern world in my opinion!).

Anyhow, the point of this message is that he starkly summarises the host of poor fans who have seen their clubs ransacked by rogues and thieves, promising the earth and then stripping them bare. A salient quote is 'the football peripheries serve as hunting grounds for the most venal, deluded and dubious club owners and directors ..... In an era of booming property prices .... Clubs' only real asset became their stadiums, or rather the land that their stadiums were inconveniently parked on'.

It then goes on to give numerous case studies of how these white knights have used various ways to get the land out of the club into shell companies under their control and then say bye bye or hold the club to ransom paying high rents for the privilege of playing in their own historic ground! The book tells how Chester and Wrexham 'were plain robbed'.

The next chapter tells how 'in dozens of cases over the last twenty years supporters' trusts have stepped in to try and salvage something from the wreckage of their club'.

I know this has all been posted on this forum many times before but reading this book and seeing in black and white just how badly shafted so many clubs have been reinforces my desire to first and foremost ensure TUFC survives and stays in the hands of people who, whatever you may think of them, are supporters and want the club to succeed.

To those of you shouting and screaming just be very careful what you wish for as the grass is often not very green on the other side, especially for a club like Torquay with low debts and a ground to call their own with a weak council sitting behind the covenant over it ........

Post by **MidDevon** » 30 Mar 2016, 17:30

I have not been on the forum for a while, but today's news got me reading!

If the estimates are to believed, the current board have got estimated losses for the season of £850,000 down to £250,000. This has been done by wide cuts to the academy, the playing budget etc. as we all are aware. This, in business terms alone, is good work. However that still leaves a 6 figure deficit. I just wonder where some of you think we should be going?

It's quite simple, the current board do not have £200,000 to £250,000 a season to invest into this black hole of running a club. From where I see it is without new owners and investment the club simply will go bust.

This puts the whole Kevin Nicholson role into perspective. Call him a legend, call him the best manager we have every had, love him as much as you want, but quite simply, no new board, who are prepared to make up the deficit the club is currently running on and in addition invest money for the club to improve things going forward, is going to,do anything other than decide themselves who the next manager should be.

We do not need protests or signatures on a sheet of paper, we need to support the new board and give them a great welcome, because without them we could well be watching South West Peninsula football next season, sharing a ground with Galmpton.

westyorkshiregull · Post by **westyorkshiregull** » 30 Mar 2016, 18:17

sounds more positive than negetive ...what could they asset strip can anyone tell me

SenorDingDong · Post by **SenorDingDong** » 30 Mar 2016, 18:41

westyorkshiregull wrote:sounds more positive than negetive ...what could they asset strip can anyone tell me

Certain land that the stadium sits on. Offer to move the stadium to somewhere else, free up the land for the school next door, in exchange the company gets a decent plot of land elsewhere in th Bay. Builds on that, never actually completes the stadium project before running the club out of business or leaving us in a balsa wood ikea stadium that cost half of the profit they made in developing land elsewhere before then failing to spend any money on the club and let it go bust.

Given the brain trust that runs Torbay Council it wouldn't be hard.

Gullscorer · Post by **Gullscorer** » 30 Mar 2016, 18:54

Chairman David Phillips has said the new owners will be putting significant finance into the club: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/35928605 Presumably assuming everything goes as expected.

Perhaps Geoff Harrop will be in charge of the resurrected Youth Academy? http://www.torquayunited.com/news/artic ... 32607.aspx

westyorkshiregull · Post by **westyorkshiregull** » 30 Mar 2016, 19:08

SenorDingDong wrote: Certain land that the stadium sits on. Offer to move the stadium to somewhere else, free up the land for the school next door, in exchange the company gets a decent plot of land elsewhere in th Bay. Builds on that, never actually completes the stadium project before running the club out of business or leaving us in a balsa wood ikea stadium that cost half of the profit they made in developing land elsewhere before then failing to spend any money on the club and let it go bust.

Given the brain trust that runs Torbay Council it wouldn't be hard.

seeing aside sentiments with my beloved plainmoor but if that happened then these things are usually legal and bounded by contracts. not saying torbay council are highly regarded when it comes to tufc but just have to make sure things are done above board. I would not like the leave plainmoor just feel it's big enough for us...has been plenty big enough for the last 30 years........

so what is the motive ..is it the ground....is it the ambition of owning a league team eventually hopefully .....

Neal · Post by **Neal** » 30 Mar 2016, 19:33

Well I don't think the land is that valuable, In Kensington yes, but Torquay Nope! Basingstoke have been trying to move to a new purpose built ground for years, just been turned down, it aint easy to do that. And other than the land there is nothing to asset strip. The ground is secure in a covenant, YES that could be broken, but I really cant see a small parcel of land in Plainmoor being worth much, what with all the development at the Willows, Kingsteignton, there is enough house building in the Torquay and surrounding areas already, with very few new jobs. The ONLY way that land would be worth buying would be to buy it, and close down the club straight away. That would mean terminating contracts, paying them up, demolition costs, just cant see it.

lucy6lucy · Post by **lucy6lucy** » 30 Mar 2016, 19:58

How times have changed, we had virtual pig racing a few years back. Now we can soon enjoy live greyhound races at plainmoor.

kevgull · Post by **kevgull** » 30 Mar 2016, 20:18

After cutting the club assets back to the bone and with gates holding near budget levels after such a poor season, we might still find ourselves with a shortfall of £250,000 at the end of the season?

I assumed that at the start of the season a "break even budget" was set for averaging 1800 fans per home game and that this would cover all associated costs concerning the running of the club?

Shouldn't have we expected possibly a small financial loss which could have been hoovered up by the board?

Post by **Dave** » 30 Mar 2016, 20:18

Know absolutely nothing about this takeover or Gaming international, or even if the intentions are honourable or not , so no point me making a comment on it.

But reading through the thread, I do totally agree with Jerry, the players may well talk about a takeover, or think about it along the way, but 3pm on a Saturday of course they don't.

As for the re-birth of the youth academy, of course that would be a great thing for the club, but in time. If the proposed new owners are intending to put money in and take the club forward, please, please, fix the club, and before anything fix the first team.

The coach's apart from those retained by the F-I-T-C scheme have all gone, Exeter and Plymouth have moved in and moped up all the best young players, with the club in the position it's in now, the chances of attracting the right quality of young player who could be developed into a first team player are none what so ever, so as said fix the club and first team, before anything.

I'm well aware of what this current board have done, and continued to try and do through out this season, I thank them with all my heart, and that goes for Steve Breed as well.

Jack · Post by **Jack** » 30 Mar 2016, 21:13

I am assuming that it is no coincidence that Gaming International started taking an interest in the Club when the possible move to Barton Valley Tip was made public.
As owners they would have an opportunity to acquire an entertainment complex including a sports stadia and car parking that could provide a tidy income if they do their homework and put the right things in place including an artificial pitch. On the plus side they will drive a hard bargain with any potential developer and get as much as they can out of the deal.
I don't think any of us can second guess how much interest they have in Torquay United and how long they will be prepared to put money into the Club if a stadium development opportunity doesn't materialise.
I don't think we should get too excited about bringing back a youth set up. Only about 300 kids in each year group ever make it as professionals and most of those are already on the books of the Premiership and Championship Clubs. There are a few who make it from the lower leagues but the numbers have reduced a lot in recent times.

SenorDingDong · Post by **SenorDingDong** » 30 Mar 2016, 21:14

westyorkshiregull wrote:seeing aside sentiments with my beloved plainmoor but if that happened then these things are usually legal and bounded by contracts. not saying torbay council are highly regarded when it comes to tufc but just have to make sure things are done above board. I would not like the leave plainmoor just feel it's big enough for us...has been plenty big enough for the last 30 years........

so what is the motive ..is it the ground....is it the ambition of owning a league team eventually hopefully .....

Like the contract Torbay Council has to redevelop Oldway Mansion or the never ending saga of the Torwood street redevelopment? which was supposed to begin about four years ago.

Well I don't think the land is that valuable, In Kensington yes, but Torquay Nope! Basingstoke have been trying to move to a new purpose built ground for years, just been turned down, it aint easy to do that. And other than the land there is nothing to asset strip. The ground is secure in a covenant, YES that could be broken, but I really cant see a small parcel of land in Plainmoor being worth much, what with all the development at the Willows, Kingsteignton, there is enough house building in the Torquay and surrounding areas already, with very few new jobs. The ONLY way that land would be worth buying would be to buy it, and close down the club straight away. That would mean terminating contracts, paying them up, demolition costs, just cant see it.

The Plainmoor land isn't. That's not to say that there isn't land elsewhere in the Bay that may well be...which the council may be prepared to swap if they can expand Westlands and establish it on one site and get an (on paper) nice new stadium out in the Willows, anchoring the development of more houses toward Kingskerswell and further justifying the construction of the Edginswell train station.

They could also just be interested in the potential of putting a greyhound venue next to the proposed new stadium but this is unlikely given the state of that particular sport these days. Alternatively they could be interested in running events like music gigs from the proposed new stadium - I have suggested for years that Torquay is missing a trick in regards to live events. However if this was true then why wouldn't they just partner with the stadium developers to run events post construction rather than buying a football club and covering it's losses.

I'm not saying any of this is true but why else would a stadium/events management company with history in greyhound racing buy a struggling loss making football club in the cultural arsehole of the country, which doesn't even have the catchment area that somewhere like Bristol Rovers could boast of. Unless the owner of Gaming International has a soft spot for United, in which case he wouldn't have bought it through his company but as an individual or through a NewCo.

Neal · Post by **Neal** » 30 Mar 2016, 21:21

But why the heck bother with TUFC. Just goto the council with your plans and do the whole thing without getting involved with a football club, no it doesn't make sense at all.

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