Do you really think Mike Bateson was pouring money in towards the end of his time? He was essentially just balancing the books, not spending anymore than the club earned as income. Why is it supposed that TUST could not do the same? A club on gates of over 2000 if things were not so bad and probably more if supporters are galvanised by owning the club themselves. That would still - even without investment - generate more revenue than most clubs in this division.
The damage, however, that has been done to the concept of TUST by the football club and the local press, now means that there are supporters who view a body of fellow supporters with suspicion. I struggle to understand this. Just who do fans think have the best interests of TUFC at heart - TUST or property developers?
There is no benevolent benefactor coming along. A Norman Smurthwaite (possibly) would be the best option but in the absence of such an option do people really want to chance their arm with GI/Peter Masters?
Matt expresses a hope that the current board will sell to the right people. Does he think GI are the right people? I also think he is a little naive when he suggests TUFC are no less a viable investment/project than any other club. That is clearly misguided as it is only when the noises started about Nightingale Park that suddenly these mythical Americans and Stadi UK/GI started making noises of their own.
Even if GI end up getting their way, and even if they actually do build a stadium (not that honouring this concept normally troubles them) is anyone foolish enough to believe that TUFC would end up owning it? More likely is that they'd be paying rent to a private landlord and not gain any of the ancillary revenue a new stadium could generate.
I think those that are denigrating TUST and shouting them down in forums will reap what they sow and end up with exactly the football club (if it still exists) that they deserve.
Fans Forum-TONIGHT. Doors open 6pm for 7pm start
I believe Dave Phillips or Rob Stanley said at the meeting we should have takeover news in a couple of weeks and that is just over a week away. I am content to ultimately judge them on who they can sell us to, rather than who we defaulted to, so am looking forward to the information given at the forum bearing fruit very soon.
hector wrote:Do you really think Mike Bateson was pouring money in towards the end of his time? He was essentially just balancing the books, not spending anymore than the club earned as income. Why is it supposed that TUST could not do the same? A club on gates of over 2000 if things were not so bad and probably more if supporters are galvanised by owning the club themselves. That would still - even without investment - generate more revenue than most clubs in this division.
The damage, however, that has been done to the concept of TUST by the football club and the local press, now means that there are supporters who view a body of fellow supporters with suspicion. I struggle to understand this. Just who do fans think have the best interests of TUFC at heart - TUST or property developers?
There is no benevolent benefactor coming along. A Norman Smurthwaite (possibly) would be the best option but in the absence of such an option do people really want to chance their arm with GI/Peter Masters?
Matt expresses a hope that the current board will sell to the right people. Does he think GI are the right people? I also think he is a little naive when he suggests TUFC are no less a viable investment/project than any other club. That is clearly misguided as it is only when the noises started about Nightingale Park that suddenly these mythical Americans and Stadi UK/GI started making noises of their own.
Even if GI end up getting their way, and even if they actually do build a stadium (not that honouring this concept normally troubles them) is anyone foolish enough to believe that TUFC would end up owning it? More likely is that they'd be paying rent to a private landlord and not gain any of the ancillary revenue a new stadium could generate.
I think those that are denigrating TUST and shouting them down in forums will reap what they sow and end up with exactly the football club (if it still exists) that they deserve.
Well said. But their record on selling the club so far isn't that great.Rjc70 wrote:I believe Dave Phillips or Rob Stanley said at the meeting we should have takeover news in a couple of weeks and that is just over a week away. I am content to ultimately judge them on who they can sell us to, rather than who we defaulted to, so am looking forward to the information given at the forum bearing fruit very soon.
Completely agree with Matt. Without major investment to drive other revenue streams the club can not be run sustainably at this level or the level below so TUST are not currently an option. Going part-time is not feasible as there simply isn't the pool of part time players available in the area - clubs need to be near a big city to make that work.
The club is in the worst possible position at the moment, running full time but languishing at the lower end of the Conference with support drifting away. To turn it around, without making significant investments to generate new revenue streams, someone probably needs to be prepared to put at least £1million in over the next 2-3 years to build a stronger team to challenge for the playoffs and hopefully start to pull crowds back in.
Possibly if the club can be challenging in the conference, have a good cup run and bring some transfer funds in, losses can be narrower.
The club is in the worst possible position at the moment, running full time but languishing at the lower end of the Conference with support drifting away. To turn it around, without making significant investments to generate new revenue streams, someone probably needs to be prepared to put at least £1million in over the next 2-3 years to build a stronger team to challenge for the playoffs and hopefully start to pull crowds back in.
Possibly if the club can be challenging in the conference, have a good cup run and bring some transfer funds in, losses can be narrower.
So are you saying, that if the very worst were to happen and the only way to save the club was through a community share issue, you would not invest in the club?exilegull wrote:Completely agree with Matt. Without major investment to drive other revenue streams the club can not be run sustainably at this level or the level below so TUST are not currently an option. Going part-time is not feasible as there simply isn't the pool of part time players available in the area - clubs need to be near a big city to make that work.
The club is in the worst possible position at the moment, running full time but languishing at the lower end of the Conference with support drifting away. To turn it around, without making significant investments to generate new revenue streams, someone probably needs to be prepared to put at least £1million in over the next 2-3 years to build a stronger team to challenge for the playoffs and hopefully start to pull crowds back in.
Possibly if the club can be challenging in the conference, have a good cup run and bring some transfer funds in, losses can be narrower.
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lucy6lucy
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The point exilegull made was spot on. To reply saying would you invest in a share option is missing the point exilegull made. The problem is what do fans want from supporting Torquay United. If it's to remain in business and play in lower non-leagues then fine. But I want us back in the football league. So the choice is pretty clear, a new investor is more likely to deliver a return to league football or at the very least national league level. TUST, whom I'm a member has not got the money to deliver football at a level we as fans expect to be playing in. Of course I would buy into a share option if it meant a return to league football, but why would I if it meant playing Dartmouth on a Tuesday nightgullpower wrote: So are you saying, that if the very worst were to happen and the only way to save the club was through a community share issue, you would not invest in the club?
Lucy
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ferrarilover
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To get us to the end of the season in our current state (which, for the avoidance of doubt, is even money to be relegated playing poorly most weeks and not really hitting any great heights when we are not) would require the entire home attendance to give £200 each.
Half our average home attendance simply could not afford that whether they wanted to or not. So we're up to £400 each. That rules out another 150. We're down to 600 people paying £500 each.
50% of those who can afford it don't want to pay at all, so we're down to 300 giving £1000 each. 250 people baulk at that for their own reasons, so we now need 50 people to give £6000 each. Only three of our current supporters are still interested, so it's £100k each.
Thanks to Dave Phillips and two unnamed others for stumping up...
Oh, wait, that's not right.
Quite what we do come July 1st, I've really no idea. Ask 1500 for another £500 each?
Every other Saturday, we offer the people of Torquay and the surrounding areas the chance to support the club financially in exchange for an hour and a half of entertainment ("entertainment"). 1500 or so people take us up on the offer.
To believe either that these people care enough about the club to fund its operations for the foreseeable future or that there are enough people who do not attend on a matchday but who would do likewise is, I'm afraid, fantasy land stuff.
Put it this way. If STs had been £500, how many would we have sold? Would you, dear reader, have bought one?
The People have been raising money for the club for the last 18 months through the PF and it's made, what, £14k? You couldn't run Torquay Ladies for that.
If we were Monaco United, I'd be hopeful, but we aren't. Maybe some of you don't leave the Bay often enough to see what a desperately poor place it is. I can readily think of three or four guys who stand with me at Plainmoor who love the club as much as is possible. None of them has £3/4/500 knocking about to fix the boiler if it breaks, let alone to donate to TUFC. Similarly, I stand with a few chaps who either make six-figure salaries or are very comfortably retired. They'd laugh themselves silly if they were asked for that sort of investment, ostensibly for nothing.
On another thread (on this, a board full of home and away diehards) I have asked for a commitment of 10 hours/week. No money, just a bit of time. I've been roundly ignored. So, I'll have another go. I've got £500 here, for one share in the club. If 999 other people come with me, we'll have half a million to pay off GI and get the team to the end of the season.
Money where your mouth is time, gentlemen.
1. Matt
...
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1000.
Matt.
Half our average home attendance simply could not afford that whether they wanted to or not. So we're up to £400 each. That rules out another 150. We're down to 600 people paying £500 each.
50% of those who can afford it don't want to pay at all, so we're down to 300 giving £1000 each. 250 people baulk at that for their own reasons, so we now need 50 people to give £6000 each. Only three of our current supporters are still interested, so it's £100k each.
Thanks to Dave Phillips and two unnamed others for stumping up...
Oh, wait, that's not right.
Quite what we do come July 1st, I've really no idea. Ask 1500 for another £500 each?
Every other Saturday, we offer the people of Torquay and the surrounding areas the chance to support the club financially in exchange for an hour and a half of entertainment ("entertainment"). 1500 or so people take us up on the offer.
To believe either that these people care enough about the club to fund its operations for the foreseeable future or that there are enough people who do not attend on a matchday but who would do likewise is, I'm afraid, fantasy land stuff.
Put it this way. If STs had been £500, how many would we have sold? Would you, dear reader, have bought one?
The People have been raising money for the club for the last 18 months through the PF and it's made, what, £14k? You couldn't run Torquay Ladies for that.
If we were Monaco United, I'd be hopeful, but we aren't. Maybe some of you don't leave the Bay often enough to see what a desperately poor place it is. I can readily think of three or four guys who stand with me at Plainmoor who love the club as much as is possible. None of them has £3/4/500 knocking about to fix the boiler if it breaks, let alone to donate to TUFC. Similarly, I stand with a few chaps who either make six-figure salaries or are very comfortably retired. They'd laugh themselves silly if they were asked for that sort of investment, ostensibly for nothing.
On another thread (on this, a board full of home and away diehards) I have asked for a commitment of 10 hours/week. No money, just a bit of time. I've been roundly ignored. So, I'll have another go. I've got £500 here, for one share in the club. If 999 other people come with me, we'll have half a million to pay off GI and get the team to the end of the season.
Money where your mouth is time, gentlemen.
1. Matt
...
...
...
1000.
Matt.
J5 said, "ferrarilover is 100% correct"
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Soupdragon
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ferrarilover (yeah, aren't we all?): I'm more than happy to put in £500. I'm more than happy to give time, too. But you need to understand that it would not be with the current board in charge. They have not demonstrated that they would act for the best for either the club or its fans.
Any money or time I put in, glven the club's current circumstances, I choose to do it via TUST. I suggest you ask someone is a TUST member to let you have sight of the chairman's latest email; it will answer a lot of your (quite blinkered, to my mind) objections.
Any money or time I put in, glven the club's current circumstances, I choose to do it via TUST. I suggest you ask someone is a TUST member to let you have sight of the chairman's latest email; it will answer a lot of your (quite blinkered, to my mind) objections.
Soupdragon wrote:ferrarilover (yeah, aren't we all?): I'm more than happy to put in £500. I'm more than happy to give time, too. But you need to understand that it would not be with the current board in charge. They have not demonstrated that they would act for the best for either the club or its fans.
Any money or time I put in, glven the club's current circumstances, I choose to do it via TUST. I suggest you ask someone is a TUST member to let you have sight of the chairman's latest email; it will answer a lot of your (quite blinkered, to my mind) objections.
Money and assistance for the Club must have Matt at number 1 on the list and nobody else has any good ideas. Those are the rules. Have you raised any of this with the two fans organisations who might assist on the separate issues yet or must everyone rally around you on your own community share issue and working party novel
ideas, Matt? Good energy. Think strategy.
I'd go TUOSC on the first and I daren't mention who on the second as they could never raise what Matt could, not to mention since the forum where it was confirmed we may have buyers in two weeks or be b*ggered by January, that's all a small number fans want to moan about.
Someone please put their name to one of his ruddy lists, though. He's worth it. It might unite us all again.
ideas, Matt? Good energy. Think strategy.
I'd go TUOSC on the first and I daren't mention who on the second as they could never raise what Matt could, not to mention since the forum where it was confirmed we may have buyers in two weeks or be b*ggered by January, that's all a small number fans want to moan about.
Someone please put their name to one of his ruddy lists, though. He's worth it. It might unite us all again.
Last edited by Rjc70 on 06 Nov 2016, 20:44, edited 2 times in total.
You would no doubt get more people willing to put money towards the club if it was via TUST than simply handing over money to the current set-up to do what they want with it.
At least, if you are essentially a part-owner, you get a say how it is utilised. At the moment, any donations, could simply be finding their way to Masters/GI. Who knows where the money goes?
At least, if you are essentially a part-owner, you get a say how it is utilised. At the moment, any donations, could simply be finding their way to Masters/GI. Who knows where the money goes?
A small detached home? Maybe downpayment on a loan for one in a different location.
Last edited by Rjc70 on 06 Nov 2016, 22:30, edited 2 times in total.
You're rather putting words in my mouth there gullpower however as you asked the question...gullpower wrote: So are you saying, that if the very worst were to happen and the only way to save the club was through a community share issue, you would not invest in the club?
I wouldn't put money through a community share issue without it being very clear it had the realistic financial plans to sustain Torquay United for at least 2 seasons at conference level for a competitive wage budget and a plan of how to progress beyond that. I'm wouldn't put into anything that only takes ownership and address the GI loan but by the end of this season is out of cash and scraping around to try and prove to the conference it can compete another season.
As far as I'm concerned it would be irresponsible for TUST to pour its members money into a blackhole for the sake of keeping the life support machine on for a few extra months and I don't see that TUST can do much more than that - maybe I'm wrong. Where I think TUST should be ready and where I would support is if the worst does come to pass and the current business does go under, TUST is ready to step is and support the club at a realistic level and turn it into a proper community club and build from there.
Rather than waste a couple of hundred thousand of members money and still likely end up in the Western League with nothing, restart the club in the Western League with a couple of hundred thousand of members money.
It isn't. GI was and remains an abomination we can only hope is history before the January deadline.gullpower wrote: Well said. But their record on selling the club so far isn't that great.
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