Defensive Fragility

culmstockgull · Post by **culmstockgull** » 27 Aug 2019, 11:20

A common and universal theme this season has been our weakness at the back, higher league with better opposition are a given. While we have a potent goal threat from numerous positions it is becoming blindingly apparent we are incapable of keeping a clean sheet. With the experience of Downes coaching in that position I was hoping that our central defenders could have moved up to the level required. The old idiom that you cannot make a silk purse out of a sows ears maybe relevant and the conference south was their level.
I know people will say that it is early days but if we wish to consider ourselves promotion material our goal difference will come back to haunt us, there will be no team running away with this league by ten points.
Johnson quite rightly took McDonald out of the firing line, and while he made mistakes he was left exposed on far too many occasions. We have a strapping welsh under 20 international permanently warming the bench on the off chance that he may be needed or Niate gets the inevitable three game ban, If I was the Swansea development manager I would be seething that he has not seen more game time, it may become apparent he is no better than the two we have but until he is given a try we will never know.
We must assume that the other teams in this league do their homework , some far more proficiently than us, they will know how porous we are and adapt accordingly, not worrying if they go two behind because our current defence will be good for a couple of goals, oh yes that reminds of yesterday.

Swatcat · Post by **Swatcat** » 27 Aug 2019, 11:55

We have conceded 12 goals - all the teams that have conceded more than 12 are in the down zone ! And poor ole' Chorley have a goal difference of -12. Ouch.

Shurely 1 clean sheet - was with Edwards in for Hall ? I hope Joe Lewis gets his chance but we're only 7 games in so hopefully the defence will settle down.

PhilGull · Post by **PhilGull** » 27 Aug 2019, 13:39

Since Liam Davis returned to give us a proper back four rather than a makeshift one we have conceded a penalty away at Dover, kept a cleansheet at home to Aldershot and conceded two second half goals on a very hot afternoon in Barnet, a game just two days after the last one.
I think we should give the current back 5 another couple of games to prove themselves. We're still in August, there is still plenty of time.

Swatcat · Post by **Swatcat** » 27 Aug 2019, 14:13

Phil - makes sense to me - good post

MellowYellow · Post by **MellowYellow** » 27 Aug 2019, 14:40

Ben Gerring must now be considered as being an experienced defender ... are we suggesting?

You will have noted that GJ responses to goal leakage is never reflective of the defensive players but just of players who "need to show a lot more". Read between the lines, our manager GJ is telling us we are still short of technically competent players (irrespective of their age) that demonstrate an understanding for their position... e.g Kalala at Barnet. And that, I think, is the hub of the question ... the issue always lies deeper.

I don't think we will change to a Davy Crockett format and line up a Battle of the Alamo defence of old crocks, playing random long balls and crosses. They will I am sure continue to play as per “The Beautiful Johnson Style”.

1) High Possession
2) High Press
3) Counter Attack

which basically means that the whole team(even the keeper) needs to be involved in the gameplay at any time whether it's while defending or attacking. You can't leave the defending all to the centre backs which I suggest (and what GJ appears to be indicating) is what a few of the players are doing..

culmstockgull · Post by **culmstockgull** » 27 Aug 2019, 15:36

Like your post MellowYellow but wonder if not the defenders, who you would suggest help out the defence. Johnson seems to suggest that although the defenders are at fault some of the time its other members of the team who are letting them down. I think that doesn't hold a lot of water, if your good enough defensively you do not need other players getting in your way.
If your No 9 isn't putting the ball in the net you get another goal scorer, you don't blame the centre half or the keeper for the strikers failings. We play with three attacking midfielders, they are not super human and cannot be at both ends of the park, they do from time to time need to breathe and re charge, Reid and Duku have a specific role, both would need a map and a piece of four be two to be any use in our third. Hall protects the back four and reads the game wonderfully. That leaves Kalala and when not injured Opi., Kalala only knows one direction and that's forward, asking him to defend would confuse the lad totally.
I do not think anyone suggests that we get two old time centre half's who have seen it, done it and have the scars to prove it, but their is a happy medium of experience , pace and still with something to prove, unfortunately we have missed the boat on most signings.

Midlandgull · Post by **Midlandgull** » 27 Aug 2019, 16:40

I think we need to defend better from the front. Reidy is a good goalscorer but I feel could work a bit harder up top - when he does it the opposition seem to make mistakes or have to launch it, when they have time it puts us under more pressure. I'd rather have reidy working his arse off for 60 mins and then bring duku on to do the same, than 90 mins of 80% effort.

Uptongull · Post by **Uptongull** » 27 Aug 2019, 17:10

I think we need to work on looking after the ball better in front of the back four.
Kalala can't tackle and doesn't chase back with any intensity. Not his game so I accept that.
Little and Andrews arent the best at tackling either.
Andrews doesn't have the physical frame, stride length and speed to out-muscle in the middle of the park and go box to box.
He's got bags of talent but he cant change his genetics.
That's at least two, perhaps three players in front of the back four who can't break up play when our backs are to the wall.
So no wonder the defenders get exposed so much.
I think one player in the mould of Matt Hockley is what we need. Just to give a bit more grit in the centre of the park.

brucie · Post by **brucie** » 27 Aug 2019, 17:37

Yesterdays goals were down to an Individual error (this time by Cameron) and a scuffed shot which took a deflection and bobbled in off the post.

Half the other goals we conceded were down to Macdonald errors. Cut out the errors and we should be ok.

I presume that anyone suggesting Gerring is joking. Experienced - so were the donkeys that use to be on Paignton Beach.

tomogull · Post by **tomogull** » 27 Aug 2019, 17:39

Culmstock - are you suggesting we revert back to Gary Owers mind-numbing defensive play?? Gary Johnson likes to play attacking football as MellowYellow quite rightly posts. Inevitably, this will leave gaps at the back on occasion. You can't have it all ways. I recall at the start of last season, when Pep Guardiola was asked about the number of goals Man City were conceding, he replied "I'm not too concerned as long as we keep scoring more goals than we concede". I think that sums up GJ's approach, and it makes for entertaining football that's worth the entrance money.

As PhilGull posted, since Liam Davis' return, the defence has looked stronger, and Wynter, Koue Niate, Cameron and Davis appear regularly in fans 'top five' after matches. Incidentally, last season we had the meanest defence in the league after Bath. Fans forget that, although the National League will be much more of a challenge of course.

I do agree that a midfield player in the mould of Matt Hockley would be a welcome addition.

Uptongull · Post by **Uptongull** » 27 Aug 2019, 18:11

Playing devil's advocate here so don't panic but maybe Gerring has just simply improved from when he was with us last?
I'm not pro or anti-Gerring. I couldn't give a hoot frankly.
But I do wonder if GJ is aware of his geographical location? Surely he must have taken a look at him?
GJ said in one of his interviews it is difficult finding top experienced talent because you've got to house them and they have families to relocate etc..at least that wouldnt be an issue with Gerring.

culmstockgull · Post by **culmstockgull** » 27 Aug 2019, 18:25

tomogull, no, no no, never would I suggest going back to the twilight days of Owers, if I ever utter that name in the same sentence as football then you have my permission to kick me senseless.
What I have suggested is that the twin centre half's either lack confidence or ability and maybe one of them needs taking out of the firing line for a time. I would hate to get to May next year knowing persistent, avoidable mistakes in defence determined our season.
Yes, perhaps a new version of Hockley would be the answer, but that again is just putting a sticking plaster over the centre halfs , it is not solving the problem. I think I go back further than you and remember Benson, well past his best in age and legs but he could still read a ball and be in the right place without outlay of energy.
Yes, Pep may not worry about how many goals are scored against them, but we do not have that luxury of knowing we can score more.

MellowYellow · Post by **MellowYellow** » 27 Aug 2019, 21:45

culmstockgull wrote: ↑27 Aug 2019, 18:25 What I have suggested is that the twin centre half's either lack confidence or ability ...... I think I go back further than you and remember Benson, well past his best in age and legs but he could still read a ball and be in the right place without outlay of energy.

culmstockgull wrote: ↑27 Aug 2019, 15:36 Kalala only knows one direction and that's forward, asking him to defend would confuse the lad totally.

I remember Benson too - a fine player - but the game has moved on tactically since those heady days - back then a 'false 9 position' was just a bluff call in a game of poker. Our twin centre half's don't lack confidence or ability - they we're both stalwart in the Barnet game, none more so than Niate, my MOTM and a few others supporters too.

You are right about Kalala - his confusion is his problem - until he can demonstrate an understanding of his position both on and off the ball his inconsistency will continue to be a liability.

All the above is a known by GJ and he will wave his magic wand over the cracks very quickly. This team will go from strength to strength as the season goes on. The first half of the Barnet game showed what is to come. Keep the faith!

brucie · Post by **brucie** » 27 Aug 2019, 22:13

Playing the way we do with an attacking game we are always going to be slightly vulnerable defensively - as has been said you can't have it all ways.

Do you seriously think that Johnson would be interested in Gerring? Blimey if he was in our attack minded team he would be a complete liability with the lack of defensive cover.

Slow as a carthorse. Fair play to him - he is playing in a team at the top of the league but he will implode like he always does.

tomogull · Post by **tomogull** » 27 Aug 2019, 23:57

brucie wrote: ↑27 Aug 2019, 22:13 Playing the way we do with an attacking game we are always going to be slightly vulnerable defensively - as has been said you can't have it all ways.

I agree with Brucie ......

No Culmstock - I think I go back further than you - even further back than Wivel. Yes - I well remember John Benson. Great player. But before him, I remember Dennis Lewis who was a midfield player (wing half in those days) who was a tough tackler.

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