Loan Players

[portugull]

I have done some research on Loan Players. At present I think I am correct in saying we do not have a single player on loan.

If a League Manager had to choose between 2 players one of whom had played 50 games for Torquay United in the National League and the other had played 50 games for Bournemouth Under 23's it is odds on he would choose the lad who had been at Torquay United.

Elite Clubs now recognise that standards in the National League are actually quite high which is why a number of Clubs make it a policy to recruit from the National League. Peterborough United are a good example and Huddersfield Town are very pleased with Sorba Thomas bought from Boreham Wood.

Many Clubs now employ a Loans Manager who has the task of placing promising players with Clubs in the National League. I am not talking about teenagers but players who need game time at our level.

We have a good reputation as a Club that brings players on and looks after them.

This topic is to discuss why we are not using the loan market this season when last year it served us so well.

Southampton, Bournemouth, Bristol City and Argyle are not far away and must have players who need game time.

Why are we not bringing in some loan players because just two good ones could make such a difference right now?

[SWgull]

You make a fair point portugull, but when you say the loan market served us so well last year, that is only half of the story surely? For every Randall there was a Rob Street and for every Sherring there was a Max Sheaf. Johnson is I am sure trying to avoid the rather scatter gun approach to loans that seemed to emerge at the start of this year where players came who were clearly not fit for purpose. I'm sure Johnson is desperate for a loan player or two but is obviously waiting for the right ones.

[dawlishmatt]

Perhaps Uncle Clarke has not / will not provide the funds to strengthen the squad, either by loan signings or contracts. With the likes of Stockport, Notts County, Wrexham, Chesterfield etc in all honesty we never stood a chance of winning the league this season. Perhaps with a level playing field next season with a salary cap coming into play, we can have a good go at reaching the promised land.

[DWB]

Perhaps Uncle Clarke has not / will not provide the funds to strengthen the squad, either by loan signings or contracts. With the likes of Stockport, Notts County, Wrexham, Chesterfield etc in all honesty we never stood a chance of winning the league this season. Perhaps with a level playing field next season with a salary cap coming into play, we can have a good go at reaching the promised land.

Which then begs the question as to why we gave contracts to several players who are clearly not up to this standard ( or indeed league 2 which is what Gary Johnson says he is always looking for) ?

[dawlishmatt]

DWB. That's my whole point in criticising Gary Johnson in a previous post. These players who Johnson has signed are by his own admission simply not good enough. After 7 games he said that several of his squad were not good enough at this level. What's his response, he goes and signs a goalkeeper meaning that we now have 3 keepers on the books. Added to this Johnson has sent out players on loan. Poor Olaf Koszela, he's been with the club for several years, he signed his first professional contract on his 17th birthday 29th March 2019 and two and a half years later he has only played 16 games most of which were as a substitute. Now aged 19 and a half, if he's not good enough then get rid of him. If he is good enough then play him in the first team. It's a bloody scandal.

[happytorq]

Which then begs the question as to why we gave contracts to several players who are clearly not up to this standard ( or indeed league 2 which is what Gary Johnson says he is always looking for) ?

Don't know much about the actual contracts though, do we? I would assume that Lapslie is on a 2 year contract, but I'd also not be surprised if O'Connell and Rogers are as well. Not sure about Omar. The point about this is that if GJ thinks he can turn this last 3 into good players, he's given himself 2 years to do so. That would line up with perhaps an expectation that it's *next* season they're aiming for.

You say "clearly" not to up to this standard, but I think we've seen something from every single player we've signed (save maybe Omar, which could just require coaching) to suggest that they're capable of stepping up. That's the position we're in. We can't go and sign Paddy Mullen, or give Whitfield (presumably) the money he was looking for. We have to find rough diamonds and polish them up.

[DWB]

Don't know much about the actual contracts though, do we? I would assume that Lapslie is on a 2 year contract, but I'd also not be surprised if O'Connell and Rogers are as well. Not sure about Omar. The point about this is that if GJ thinks he can turn this last 3 into good players, he's given himself 2 years to do so. That would line up with perhaps an expectation that it's *next* season they're aiming for.

You say "clearly" not to up to this standard, but I think we've seen something from every single player we've signed (save maybe Omar, which could just require coaching) to suggest that they're capable of stepping up. That's the position we're in. We can't go and sign Paddy Mullen, or give Whitfield (presumably) the money he was looking for. We have to find rough diamonds and polish them up.

That’s because Gary Johnson has said as much. I personally don’t think that Omar, O’Connell and Rogers are of a decent enough standard. But that is obviously my opinion, which, I know doesn’t count for much!

[happytorq]

That’s because Gary Johnson has said as much. I personally don’t think that Omar, O’Connell and Rogers are of a decent enough standard. But that is obviously my opinion, which, I know doesn’t count for much!

Yeah, there have been a few players that Johnson has brought in who've turned out to be better than expected. I never expected Nemane to be anything other than a speed merchant (which is interestingly what he seems to have regressed to at Notts)

Omar has all of the tools to be a very capable lower league defender. He's big, strong, quick. Positionally he can be suspect but that's something that can be coached. Of course he's not there yet but with patience, I think he could be a find. Cameron was not great when he started with us, either.

I would imagine that a lot of what makes somebody 'improvable' is attitude, and over his career I'm sure GJ has got really good at assessing a player's attitude.

[MellowYellow]

That’s because Gary Johnson has said as much. I personally don’t think that Omar, O’Connell and Rogers are of a decent enough standard. But that is obviously my opinion, which, I know doesn’t count for much!

You're not alone in those thoughts - nonetheless, it appears now Johnson will have this season to see if he can develop them further. But if you gauge their quality against the likes of Sherring, Cameron, Randell, Nemane and Whitfield they are, in my opinion, way off the mark.

[portugull]

SWgull I think you are right Gary wants effective loanees but I would say if we get 2 out of 5 as good as Randell and Sherring then that is a result.

We are never going to get 5 out of 5 who really make a difference.

The loan player the host club and the donor club never know for certain how things will work out. It is high risk by its very nature but looking back over the decades we have had some great players.

I always bang on about Portuguese players because I lived in Portugal for 10 years and Gary would be amazed at the quality available if he could persuade himself to look abroad for talent.

Many are on peanuts and some months do not get paid at all! African and South American players are hungry for success but most English clubs are blinkered and not interested.

I saw Eric Dier and Mata in Portugal before anybody had ever heard of them.

[happytorq]

I always bang on about Portuguese players because I lived in Portugal for 10 years and Gary would be amazed at the quality available if he could persuade himself to look abroad for talent.

Don't disagree here but I imagine that with Brexit, it's going to be a lot harder to bring a Portuguese player over. Free movement has basically gone away.

[portugull]

I know Chelsea sent out no less than 37 players on loan last season.

Why don't we ask if we can loan a good young player who will benefit from mens football.

I know Rob Street did not work out for us but the odds are surely in our favour if a Premier League Club has signed the player.

happytorq a work permit is possible despite Brexit or am I wrong?

[happytorq]

happytorq a work permit is possible despite Brexit or am I wrong?

Work permits are possible, yes, but for our level probably not very likely. Players now need to get a Governing Body Endorsement from the FA, the qualification for which depends on a points system. I don't remember the exact number a player has to get, but one way to get points is to have international appearances your country. Another is domestic league appearances, I believe.

That's ok when you're signing for Liverpool (because you're probably already an international and/or have played at a pretty high level already) but at our level it's going to be hard to get players to the requisite point score to be given a permit.

[bojllitse]

Work permits are possible, yes, but for our level probably not very likely. Players now need to get a Governing Body Endorsement from the FA, the qualification for which depends on a points system. I don't remember the exact number a player has to get, but one way to get points is to have international appearances your country. Another is domestic league appearances, I believe.

That's ok when you're signing for Liverpool (because you're probably already an international and/or have played at a pretty high level already) but at our level it's going to be hard to get players to the requisite point score to be given a permit.

Yes, that's my understanding of it too. Does anyone know how Notts managed to bring in Rodrigues though as be surely wouldn't have qualified for a permit?

[Chelston TUFC]

I think Rodrigues signed before Brexit so would guess that it would have been much easier to move within the EU and then to remain