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Absent abroad for last three consecutive 1-0 defeats so can't comment but have been reading others' comments. Seems our rookie manager is coming in for some stick.
I,for one, would prefer to listen to the man himself. After the Southend defeat he would have liked to refund those who went!
Interestingly he says his brief is to keep us up or to bring us back up. Sadly looking like the latter. But his other comment after yesterday is that those players who want to remain for next season have to impress him otherwise they're gone and that includes contracted players for next season.
For me that sounds like the biggest hint that there will be a big clear out especially as he adds his other brief is to bring through our youth team starlets, rather like his role at Bournemouth.
Could spell the end for Hawley, Tonge and others.
PS Greetings from sunny Barbados! Losing is just bearable with a rum punch!

You can't judge him on the crap knill brought in, the damage was done (yes stefano, even with the 5 games you pick and choose)

He needs to realise its time to be his own man, clear out the crap and start building some excitment and confidence for next season

I agree that he should be given his chance and would fully support him in the Conference next season. Given time, I think you'll see a manager who wants his teams to play football the right way, on the ground.

Genuinely, I don't think we'll struggle as much as some suggest. CH has contacts within the game and will be able to bring the right players into the fold.

His biggest test will be to remove the "jobs for the boys" players, and I do worry whether he will do that. But then you never know, we might see a resurgent Lee Mansell in the Conference or the Danny Stevens who got the fans chanting "SIGN HIM UP" from the stands all those moons ago.

In CH I trust and hopefully we will see that trust repaid with entertainment.

I agree, and it would help if something is done to improve the pitch before next winter; but no plastic pitches, please..!!

PlainmoorRoar wrote:You can't judge him on the crap knill brought in, the damage was done (yes stefano, even with the 5 games you pick and choose)

He needs to realise its time to be his own man, clear out the crap and start building some excitment and confidence for next season

I think you will find I haven't commented on this thread so how I can be brought into it is a mystery to me.

Just a slight correction though. I never 'pick and choose' 5 games. I use the same ones each time. The last 5. You know the way forecasters in sports across the World do to give a guide to current form.

stefano wrote: I think you will find I haven't commented on this thread so how I can be brought into it is a mystery to me.

Just a slight correction though. I never 'pick and choose' 5 games. I use the same ones each time. The last 5. You know the way forecasters in sports across the World do to give a guide to current form.

...it is just you choose to ignore the sheer weight of evidence that contradicts your flimsy argument.

eg

1) Knill's entire record at TUFC
2) Knill's record this season
3) The fact that most form indicators are usually based on 6 games rather than 5, but then that wouldn't make your manipulation of the facts look so good.
4) The fact that the final 3 games of your much heralded 5, were abject performances. Analyse trends and even an idiot (well...) can see that it was only heading one way.
5) The fact that Knill, in his setting out the cones and collecting in the bibs role at Northampton, is not exactly setting them alight.

Question for you Stefano? Torquay and Northampton will be relegated this season. What do they have in common? Hmmm....let me think.

hector wrote: ...it is just you choose to ignore the sheer weight of evidence that contradicts your flimsy argument.

eg

1) Knill's entire record at TUFC
2) Knill's record this season
3) The fact that most form indicators are usually based on 6 games rather than 5, but then that wouldn't make your manipulation of the facts look so good.
4) The fact that the final 3 games of your much heralded 5, were abject performances. Analyse trends and even an idiot (well...) can see that it was only heading one way.
5) The fact that Knill, in his setting out the cones and collecting in the bibs role at Northampton, is not exactly setting them alight.

Question for you Stefano? Torquay and Northampton will be relegated this season. What do they have in common? Hmmm....let me think.

us and them are the worst two teams in the league. ac were sh*t before knill got there anyway.

cambgull wrote:I agree that he should be given his chance and would fully support him in the Conference next season. Given time, I think you'll see a manager who wants his teams to play football the right way, on the ground.

Genuinely, I don't think we'll struggle as much as some suggest. CH has contacts within the game and will be able to bring the right players into the fold.

His biggest test will be to remove the "jobs for the boys" players, and I do worry whether he will do that. But then you never know, we might see a resurgent Lee Mansell in the Conference or the Danny Stevens who got the fans chanting "SIGN HIM UP" from the stands all those moons ago.

In CH I trust and hopefully we will see that trust repaid with entertainment.

dont talk wet.

PlainmoorRoar wrote:You can't judge him on the crap knill brought in, the damage was done (yes stefano, even with the 5 games you pick and choose)

He needs to realise its time to be his own man, clear out the crap and start building some excitment and confidence for next season

thats fair enough.

but we can judge him on the dross that he has brought in and the players/formations that he has chosen to use.

I actually think that fans of TUFC generally give managers a chance. Take Knill for example. Even as defeat after defeat and shoddy performance after shoddy performance rolled on by and we got sucked into the bottom 2 there were still quite a lot of fans willing to give Alan the benefit of the doubt. Let's not forget that even though he kept us up with players that weren't his, the performances and results in general weren't really any better than Chris has managed to muster. The new manager effect just didn't happen with Knill and he had no impact whatsoever after coming in. The one thing he did do however was bring in the odd player like Labadie whose goals contributed to our survival. Chris has brought in loads and they pretty much are all shite. I take into account the limited nature of players available at the current time of course but if these are the kinds of players we can expect for next season then it's going to be tough. On the whole given the appalling job by Knill I think a lot of fans were very patient even when some expressed concerns early on, concerns which were proven to be correct otherwise he's still be here if they were wrong.

Same with Chris. Just because some are expressing concerns about his abilities long term doesn't mean these fans won't give him a chance to build his own squad and see what he can do. This is what pisses me off Nickbrod. We're not saying we want him out and he is a shit manager blah blah blah, we are saying that based on what we've seen and taking everything into account during his 3 months here then there are big concerns. Just like with Knill, each and every aspect and decision made by the manager has been looked at carefully and as games have passed it has become apparent that there could be major problems for next season with Chris in charge. That's not to say we're not going to give him a chance but if folk want to read about some expressing concerns and then deduce that we're not prepared to give him a chance then they are clearly getting mixed up.

Just say a random bloke who used to work at TESCO as head of fruit and veg and who happens to run the local footy team applied for the job as manager of TUFC and then got it. He has the same experience as CH at managing at league 2 level. Performances are shocking for 3 months bar the odd bright spot which is more a likelihood of probability than quality. The TESCO man, having convinced the board that he was absolutely the right man for the job despite having no managerial experience then proceeds to add some pretty dodgy loanee footballers. Perhaps from this mans sunday pub team as the ones that CH has added are no better. In addition to this the TESCO man makes no attempt to try and win games of football by fair means or foul. A new manager who you would have thought would be absolutely desperate to try and get the fans on side and quickly show the board that they mean business by taking the bull by the horns has somehow managed to make things worse than they were before Knill left. Hardly impressive even given all the circumstances. Therefore I am saying that of course we cannot judge him until he has his own squad and he has been given a crack but we can express opinions based on what we have seen thus far. We need someone different, someone with experience but unlike Knill someone who doesn't have the persona of a wet dishcloth. We need common sense which the last 3 managers have not had (yet) and we need someone with some real balls and tenacity to get this stagnant club to wake up again. Chris is not the answer IMO sad as I am to say it but yes, I'm sure he will get a chance but the pressure on him next season will be immense. Not only would we have to be reasonably successful on the pitch but we would also have to start playing some dynamic, confident, attacking, entertaining football to boot. Given the ability and fight of the clubs in the conference then I'd say it was a tougher job than of we were in league 2 next season and having to keep us there. I'm sure most of you are ultra confident in Chris purely based in the fact that he was a good player for us and nothing more and that's fine, I just feel the torment at TUFC isn't over yet.

Give Chris the chance if that is what it is to be, let him bring in his own players and let us see how it pans out. That is fair enough. From my perspective I would happy at a play off push next season even if we don't get into the play offs. So long as we take the games to teams, play some good stuff and have a positive attitude then mid table to start will be fine for me also and fine for Chris as a first season. I'm under no illusions. Anything other than this and we'll just get the Ling / Knill cycle all over again and there are signs that this could happen IMO. That would be tragic for Chris given the standing he has at the club but he has convinced us all that he can do it so let him get on and do it next season. Zero excuses.

If we can say hand on heart, "Chris has given it his best shot, he's tried absolutely everything and we've given it a bloody real good go with what we've got. Sadly we've just fallen short - no regrets - no harm done" then there is no discussion to be had.

We can't say that though and as I've said before, one doesn't really need to be a football manager to have accomplished the above criteria. That is why there is now debate about CH being the right man for the job rightly or wrongly.

Yes Chris Hargreaves does deserve a chance, he will get that chance. Our current situation isn't CH'S fault he was brought in under difficult circumstances, however to say the current standard of performances isn't Chris Hargreaves fault, it's down to the crap players brought in by AK, is at best a wet, limp wristed excuse, and pretty much nonsense., Ak signed Chapell, Pearce, Cameron who's starting to look the part, CH signed Danny Stevens and player AK rightly realised.

The standard of football we're playing now is 10 times worse than was under Alan Knill, at least AK tried different tactics and we saw a team at least tried to vary the way played, under Chris Hargreaves plan A, Martin Rice hoof the ball 50 yards in a straight line, plan B , Nico hoof the ball 50 yards in a straight line, plan C, Downes hoof the ball 50 yards in a straight line, plan D, Pearce, hoof the ball 50 yards in a straight line, if you can't work out plan E-Z then there's something wrong with you, predictable schoolboy stuff, and utter garbage, can't blame the players for that, no wonder they look so disillusioned.

How long has Chris Hargreaves been in the job, as a fan truth is, I'm concerned and disappointed on so many levels with Chris Hargreaves, the team looks by some way disinterested and demotivated than it ever did under the previous two managers, and then I look at Jordan Chapell, consistently our best attacking threat, Chris Hargreaves seems to have completely destroyed the lad, a player capable of winning you games looks a shadow of his former self.

Get the best out of players you have got. We can slag off Benyon and Hawley all we like, what chance does either of these players have to flourish out on the park , when their isolated, because the gap between them and strike partner is bigger than the Mersey tunnel and their having to deal / cope with hoofed balls they stand little or no chance winning, Christ don't need much of a footballing brain, both Hawley and Benyon will only thrive with the ball played into feet.

Create attacking overloads and score goals, simple, basic football coaching. How many games will CH need to identify a huge problem I see game after game, if your going to hoof it quick and long, fine, but then you have to, this is so important, get the midfield line up close to the forwards to support, and time and time again there not, nowhere near close enough, so ball keeps coming back time and time again because our powder-puff strike force can't win it or hold the ball up there. And when we do get in behind there's no one in the box, CH should be encouraging numbers to get in and attack the penalty area when we get in behind, again basic stuff.

Successful managers have a fantastic relationship with their players , built on two trust. Promising to buy fans a pint for their wasted trip to Hartlepool, saying you would like to give fans who Southend their money back, empty sound bites, and how does that make players feel, if they feel bad enough already, the players have been under fire all season, managers job to defend them in face of everything, CH you said it's your job to take the pressure off the players, correct, might I suggest you actually start doing it.

Chris Hargreaves initial brief was to keep the club in the F/L to be honest he's doing a pretty pathetic job, my suggestion here would be, go back to basics, figure your best 11 and stick to it, play to there strengths, clearly not hoofball , get some results and momentum and then build on it. Right now I would say CH needs to improve and fast, yes this isn't his squad, however he's not going to able to build much of a squad on the pennies he'll get in the conference.

forevertufc wrote:Yes Chris Hargreaves does deserve a chance, he will get that chance. Our current situation isn't CH'S fault he was brought in under difficult circumstances, however to say the current standard of performances isn't Chris Hargreaves fault, it's down to the crap players brought in by AK, is at best a wet, limp wristed excuse, and pretty much nonsense., Ak signed Chapell, Pearce, Cameron who's starting to look the part, CH signed Danny Stevens and player AK rightly realised.

The standard of football we're playing now is 10 times worse than was under Alan Knill, at least AK tried different tactics and we saw a team at least tried to vary the way played, under Chris Hargreaves plan A, Martin Rice hoof the ball 50 yards in a straight line, plan B , Nico hoof the ball 50 yards in a straight line, plan C, Downes hoof the ball 50 yards in a straight line, plan D, Pearce, hoof the ball 50 yards in a straight line, if you can't work out plan E-Z then there's something wrong with you, predictable schoolboy stuff, and utter garbage, can't blame the players for that, no wonder they look so disillusioned.

How long had Chris Hargreaves been in the job, as a fan truth is, I'm concerned and disappointed on so many levels with Chris Hargreaves, the team looks by some way disinterested and demotivated than it ever did under the previous two managers, and then I look at Jordan Chapell, consistently our best attacking threat, Chris Hargreaves seems to have completely destroyed the lad, a player capable of winning you games looks a shadow of his former self.

Get the best out of players you have got. We can slag off Benyon and Hawley all we like, what chance does either of these players have to flourish out on the park , when their isolated, because the gap between them and strike partner is bigger than the Mersey tunnel and their having to deal / cope with hoofed balls they stand little or no chance winning, Christ don't need much of a footballing brain, both Hawley and Benyon will only thrive with the ball played into feet.

Create attacking overloads and score goals, simple, basic football coaching. How many games will CH need to identify a huge problem I see game after game, if your going to hoof it quick and long, fine, but then you have to, this is so important, get the midfield line up close to the forwards to support, and time and time again there not, nowhere near close enough, so ball keeps coming back time and time again because our powder-puff strike force can't win it or hold the ball up there. And when we do get in behind there's no one in the box, CH should be encouraging numbers to get in and attack the penalty area when we get in behind, again basic stuff.

Successful managers have a fantastic relationship with their players , built on two trust. Promising to buy fans a pint for their wasted trip to Hartlepool, saying you would like to give fans who Southend their money back, empty sound bites, and how does that make players feel, if they feel bad enough already, the players have been under fire all season, managers job to defend them in face of everything, CH you said it's your job to take the pressure off the players, correct, might I suggest you actually start doing it.

Chris Hargreaves initial brief was to keep the club in the F/L to be honest he's doing a pretty pathetic job, my suggestion here would be, go back to basics, figure your best 11 and stick to it, play to there strengths, clearly not hoofball , get some results and momentum and then build on it. Right now I would say CH needs to improve and fast, yes this isn't his squad, however he's not going to able to build much of a squad on the pennies he'll get in the conference.

SuperNickyWroe wrote: thats fair enough.

but we can judge him on the dross that he has brought in and the players/formations that he has chosen to use.

Agreed.

Bloody hell this is becoming a habit.

forevertufc wrote:Yes Chris Hargreaves does deserve a chance, he will get that chance. Our current situation isn't CH'S fault he was brought in under difficult circumstances, however to say the current standard of performances isn't Chris Hargreaves fault, it's down to the crap players brought in by AK, is at best a wet, limp wristed excuse, and pretty much nonsense., Ak signed Chapell, Pearce, Cameron who's starting to look the part, CH signed Danny Stevens and player AK rightly realised.

The standard of football we're playing now is 10 times worse than was under Alan Knill, at least AK tried different tactics and we saw a team at least tried to vary the way played, under Chris Hargreaves plan A, Martin Rice hoof the ball 50 yards in a straight line, plan B , Nico hoof the ball 50 yards in a straight line, plan C, Downes hoof the ball 50 yards in a straight line, plan D, Pearce, hoof the ball 50 yards in a straight line, if you can't work out plan E-Z then there's something wrong with you, predictable schoolboy stuff, and utter garbage, can't blame the players for that, no wonder they look so disillusioned.

How long has Chris Hargreaves been in the job, as a fan truth is, I'm concerned and disappointed on so many levels with Chris Hargreaves, the team looks by some way disinterested and demotivated than it ever did under the previous two managers, and then I look at Jordan Chapell, consistently our best attacking threat, Chris Hargreaves seems to have completely destroyed the lad, a player capable of winning you games looks a shadow of his former self.

Get the best out of players you have got. We can slag off Benyon and Hawley all we like, what chance does either of these players have to flourish out on the park , when their isolated, because the gap between them and strike partner is bigger than the Mersey tunnel and their having to deal / cope with hoofed balls they stand little or no chance winning, Christ don't need much of a footballing brain, both Hawley and Benyon will only thrive with the ball played into feet.

Create attacking overloads and score goals, simple, basic football coaching. How many games will CH need to identify a huge problem I see game after game, if your going to hoof it quick and long, fine, but then you have to, this is so important, get the midfield line up close to the forwards to support, and time and time again there not, nowhere near close enough, so ball keeps coming back time and time again because our powder-puff strike force can't win it or hold the ball up there. And when we do get in behind there's no one in the box, CH should be encouraging numbers to get in and attack the penalty area when we get in behind, again basic stuff.

Successful managers have a fantastic relationship with their players , built on two trust. Promising to buy fans a pint for their wasted trip to Hartlepool, saying you would like to give fans who Southend their money back, empty sound bites, and how does that make players feel, if they feel bad enough already, the players have been under fire all season, managers job to defend them in face of everything, CH you said it's your job to take the pressure off the players, correct, might I suggest you actually start doing it.

Chris Hargreaves initial brief was to keep the club in the F/L to be honest he's doing a pretty pathetic job, my suggestion here would be, go back to basics, figure your best 11 and stick to it, play to there strengths, clearly not hoofball , get some results and momentum and then build on it. Right now I would say CH needs to improve and fast, yes this isn't his squad, however he's not going to able to build much of a squad on the pennies he'll get in the conference.

Brilliant!