Has the world gone nuts?

[Gullscorer]

No, just the chairman of Forest Green Rovers, it seems. The club is to 'celebrate' the first ever Vegan match day: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-gl ... e-34680213

No pasties or meat pies, no milk in your tea or coffee, and presumably only lettuce and tomato sandwiches (organic, no doubt). All this after spreading horse manure on the pitch to fertilise it, which practice should be banned: any player suffering a cut or graze on the FGR pitch is in danger of suffering much worse, in the form of potentially life-threatening infections.

What gives this nutcase the right to put players' health in danger and to impose his own lifestyle views on spectators? If supporters bring their own meat pies and flasks of tea and coffee whilst paying their hard-earned money to watch a game on a cold winter's day, will he try to ban those too?

If I were a FGR supporter I'd organise a rebellion, complain to the league and the FA, sue him for breach of our human rights, and give him the boot..

[PhilGull]

Oh **** off Gullscorer. How is horse shit dangerous? And what about if a vegan goes to a game and cat eat or drink anything because its all got animals in it, should they be complaining to the authorities, bleating about their human rights?

[Gullscorer]

Oh f*** off Gullscorer. How is horse sh*t dangerous? And what about if a vegan goes to a game and cat eat or drink anything because its all got animals in it, should they be complaining to the authorities, bleating about their human rights?

There are obviously benefits to using manure as fertiliser in the garden or on the farm or smallholding. However, visit any associated websites and they almost never point out the potential health risks. MRSA and Tetanus are but two of the most common persistent threats, and such fungi and bacteria in the soil not only remain a threat, but manure can increase their resistance to modern drug treatments:
http://www.nature.com/news/manure-ferti ... ce-1.16081
http://www.agannex.com/protection/mrsa-and-manure
http://www.planetnatural.com/manure-ant ... s-compost/
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/770540
So yes, the potential hazards to players are significantly increased because of the use of manure on sports fields.

As for the food available to vegans, well, just what size of a minority must they be to justify the provision of Vegan food? But in this case it is available; that’s not the issue. The common sense answer is to have some Vegan food available in addition to normal omnivore food, if the FGR chairman feels that strongly about it. But no, the idiot seeks to impose his own preferences upon others.

Clubs, even football clubs, are organisations normally owned by the members who maintain a set of rules under democratic process to elect a committee or board, the chairman of which should defer to the members’ democratic wishes. This chairman appears to be just another autocratic capitalist who demonstrates the fact that capitalism and democracy are far from being synonymous, and to hell with what supporters think.

[PhilGull]

Ok, so maybe there is something in your horse shit issues, I don't know enough about the subject yet.
What is your problem with the food and drink being vegan though? It's not like only vegans can eat it! The benefit of vegan food is that everyone can eat it. Regardless of race or religion or ethics. The only concern anyone need have is with allergies.

[Dazza]

I think the owner is entitled to do whatever he wants in the circumstances. Look at the League table I think I would be prepared to eat my spinach hat. !

Added in 3 seconds:
I think the owner is entitled to do whatever he wants in the circumstances. Look at the League table I think I would be prepared to eat my spinach hat. !

[Dave]

To a point Dazza. There's nothing wrong with someone sharing their beliefs and trying to encourage someone to believe the same things. No one should ever force their beliefs on someone else, an alternative should be offered to cater for all beliefs and tastes.

[Gullscorer]

What is your problem with the food and drink being vegan though? It's not like only vegans can eat it! The benefit of vegan food is that everyone can eat it. Regardless of race or religion or ethics. The only concern anyone need have is with allergies.

I eat veggie food myself on occasion and don't have a problem with it, though I can't say I'm mad about it, and, like most people, I enjoy eating meat and fish. But that is missing the point. The issue here concerns discrimination and freedom of choice.

It is currently estimated that around 2% of the UK population is vegetarian. As to the number of Vegans, the British Vegan Society itself estimates that there are only some 150,000 vegans in the UK - that is about 1 in 400 (0.25%). It is therefore safe to conclude, unless south Gloucestershire and Wiltshire are Vegan/Veggie hotspots, that 98% of spectators at FGR games would appreciate their usual meat pie or pasty (should they all be that hungry), a choice which they have been denied.

Yes the FGR chairman is legally allowed to discriminate in this way. But such a position is morally reprehensible. There would soon be complaints from Vegans if a club declared 'We will not serve Vegan food', just as there would be complaints if it said 'We refuse to serve blacks, Jews, Muslims, Christians, Gays, or disabled people'. The level of importance may be different, but the principle is the same. And it is at least as shameful to discriminate against a majority as it is against a minority.

The commonsense position is to make both types of food available. There was a 27% drop in the FGR gate today from the previous home game. The 1561 crowd presumably included 32 vegetarians and Vegans. One wonders how much of this drop is due to the lack of non-Vegan food and drink. And unless the players are all Vegans, it's unlikely this situation has contributed to their position at the top of the table.

Perhaps it's the manure after all.. :~D

http://www.imaner.net/panel/statistics.htm
https://www.vegsoc.org/sslpage.aspx?pid=753

[PhilGull]

I eat veggie food myself on occasion and don't have a problem with it, though I can't say I'm mad about it, and, like most people, I enjoy eating meat and fish. But that is missing the point. The issue here concerns discrimination and freedom of choice.

It is currently estimated that around 2% of the UK population is vegetarian. As to the number of Vegans, the British Vegan Society itself estimates that there are only some 150,000 vegans in the UK - that is about 1 in 400 (0.25%). It is therefore safe to conclude, unless south Gloucestershire and Wiltshire are Vegan/Veggie hotspots, that 98% of spectators at FGR games would appreciate their usual meat pie or pasty (should they all be that hungry), a choice which they have been denied.

Yes the FGR chairman is legally allowed to discriminate in this way. But such a position is morally reprehensible. There would soon be complaints from Vegans if a club declared 'We will not serve Vegan food', just as there would be complaints if it said 'We refuse to serve blacks, Jews, Muslims, Christians, Gays, or disabled people'. The level of importance may be different, but the principle is the same. And it is at least as shameful to discriminate against a majority as it is against a minority.

The commonsense position is to make both types of food available. There was a 27% drop in the FGR gate today from the previous home game. The 1561 crowd presumably included 32 vegetarians and Vegans. One wonders how much of this drop is due to the lack of non-Vegan food and drink. And unless the players are all Vegans, it's unlikely this situation has contributed to their position at the top of the table.

Perhaps it's the manure after all.. :~D

http://www.imaner.net/panel/statistics.htm
https://www.vegsoc.org/sslpage.aspx?pid=753

What are you talking about? Both types of food? Just because something is vegan doesn't mean non-vegans can't eat it. Chocolate bourbons, choc-chip Hob-Nobs, chips, tomato ketchup all vegan, do you not eat them because of this?

[Gullscorer]

What are you talking about? I'm talking about the food Vegans eat and the food Vegans don't eat; both types of food.

Just because some food contains meat, fish, milk, etc. doesn't mean Vegans can't eat it. It's just that they choose not to.

And if others choose to eat meat pies, fish, ham sandwiches, etc. they should not be denied that choice, particularly if they are an estimated 98% of supporters at the match; indeed, 98% of the population of the country.

What part of that can you not understand?

[PhilGull]

So they should have everything available? Every possible food dish imaginable should be available to buy for fear of upsetting the fan who wants kalamari or the fan who wants braised pheasant or the fan who wants poached owl eggs?

[Gullscorer]

So they should have everything available? Every possible food dish imaginable should be available to buy for fear of upsetting the fan who wants kalamari or the fan who wants braised pheasant or the fan who wants poached owl eggs?

I think you know that such a proposal would be ridiculous, and that it's not what I'm suggesting. Yet you seem to be happy for solely Vegan food, for which there is very little demand, to be provided, whilst banning food containing meat, fish, and dairy products, which 98% of people enjoy at football grounds all around the country.

The answer is to apply some common sense: provide food for which there is a demand, if it is economically viable to do so. But the fact that approximately only 2% of people are vegetarians should tell you that it's ridiculous to ban food such as pasties and meat pies and milk in tea or coffee for the vast majority at football matches if that's what they choose to consume.

This whole affair is yet another example of how a few ideological extremists, having been unable to persuade people to their way of thinking, now insidiously seek to impose their minority views upon the rest of humanity. While I'm not averse to most Vegan food, I trust we shall see no more Vegan match days where food and drink enjoyed by 98% of people are banned.

[Dave]

I'm in total agreement here with Gullscorer, it's not about offering every food, for every taste, belief or even religion, it's about offering sensible alternatives for all, the owner in my view has no right to deny a fan milk in his drink or a meat pie if that's want he/she wants.

[Alpine Joe]

forevertufc

the owner in my view has no right to deny a fan milk in his drink or a meat pie if that's want he/she wants.

And if the owner was Muslim, no doubt he'd have no right to deny a fan a pork pie if that's what he/she wants ?. When will busy bodies stop trying to poke their noses in and dictating to others how they should run there business ?

If Forest Green only want to sell Deep fried Mars bars and nothing else, or don't want to sell food & drink to spectators at all, then that should be their choice. When I go into my town's one fish and chip shop they offer me a choice of fish & chips, just fish or just chips. I don't want a human right that forces them to have pizza available.

Gullscorer resembles a militant feminist demanding the heavy hand of the law be brought in to force someone to act against their will. All power to the Forest Green owner....not that I'd buy any of his vegan food or assorted lettuce leaves :~D

[PhilGull]

forevertufc And if the owner was Muslim, no doubt he'd have no right to deny a fan a pork pie if that's what he/she wants ?. When will busy bodies stop trying to poke their noses in and dictating to others how they should run there business ?

If Forest Green only want to sell Deep fried Mars bars and nothing else, or don't want to sell food & drink to spectators at all, then that should be their choice. When I go into my town's one fish and chip shop they offer me a choice of fish & chips, just fish or just chips. I don't want a human right that forces them to have pizza available.

Gullscorer resembles a militant feminist demanding the heavy hand of the law be brought in to force someone to act against their will. All power to the Forest Green owner....not that I'd buy any of his vegan food or assorted lettuce leaves :~D

Funniest thing I've seen on hear in years! Bravo Joe!

[Gullscorer]

Alpine Joe's comments do not stand up to scrutiny.

First, I have never come across a Muslim shopkeeper who has not also tried to cater for western tastes. But if anyone wanted to sell deep-fried Mars Bars and nothing else, I doubt they would have much business. And if they successfully sold nothing but fish and chips, that is a testament to the popularity of the food more than anything else.

Secondly, the difference with FGR is that it is a football club, not a takeaway business. By all means offer Vegan food to spectators if there is a demand for it which is economically viable. I'm sure the few Vegans at the match will have been very pleased, since that is the food they choose to eat. But to also deny food containing meat, fish, and dairy products, to those who prefer such food is to risk alienating 98% of supporters at the game, and will do the club no good at all.

The FGR chairman should remember that his first duty is to the club, and not to his extreme minority ideological Vegan beliefs which are shared by just 0.25% of the population. As for Alpine Joe's asinine penultimate sentence, it more accurately describes the FGR chairman rather than myself, except that this is not a question of law (what he did was perfectly legal, and at no time have I advocated changing the law here) but a question of ethics, morality, and integrity.

:na: