Proposed new Football League structure

Post by **happytorq** » 19 May 2016, 20:59

Link here: https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... xtra-teams

Essentially, the Football League is intending to expand by 8 teams to 80, and adding a new division so that there are 4 football league divisions under the Premier League. This means 4 divisions of 20 which they're saying will reduce fixture congestion (understandable), and they also claim that it would increase season ticket sales because there will be fewer midweek games. This would be for the 2019/2020 season.

I've wanted them to expand the FL for a while now; it used to be that Conference teams were amateurs but by and large that isn't the case any more, so it made sense to me to bring more teams into the League. Presumably they'd find the 8 new teams from the National League. although it's not clear how that would work yet.

Modgull · Post by **Modgull** » 19 May 2016, 21:51

I just hope we're competitive by then so we can be one of the eight - I couldn't bear the thought of being bumped down!

Post by **happytorq** » 19 May 2016, 22:13

Modgull wrote:I just hope we're competitive by then so we can be one of the eight - I couldn't bear the thought of being bumped down!

one of the eight? by then I'd hope we're an established League 2 side again. Hell, maybe we can be established enough to be in clubs 41-60 of this new structure, that is, the 4th tier of football

Plainmoor78 · Post by **Plainmoor78** » 20 May 2016, 01:04

I can't see this happening for two reasons. The reduction in fixtures and subsequent loss of income; I seem to remember Mike Batson complaining about significant loss of income when the lower division was reduced to 22 clubs from 1992/93 for three seasons due to the collapse of the original Aldershot and Maidstone clubs. Also the loss of four places in the championship would not be welcomed by clubs who traditionally haunt the lower regions of that division. With the proposals requiring the support of 65 of the 72 chairmen it would be extremely difficult for the league to get support for them.
Also from reading the article it won't mean eight going up from the national league in one go. What it suggests is that relegation from league 2 will be temporarily scrapped for one season leading to six teams being promoted, or more likely relegation being reduced to one team for several seasoned until the numbers are made up.
Anyway that will all be by the by for torquay united until the football league allows artificial pitches.

PhilGull · Post by **PhilGull** » 20 May 2016, 09:15

Less home games means less gate receipts and season tickets will have to be reduced. Just to fix fixture congestion? Is it even a problem in the Football League? Better to divest some of the Premier League money better and allow clubs to fix up their grounds so they can avoid weather related postponements.

Rjc70 · Post by **Rjc70** » 20 May 2016, 14:30

Very difficult to see Football League clubs voting for this proposal to go through. Totally agree that trickling down more TV money is a more palatable way to go, but there's no rush for that from the richest clubs.

Reduced income from the number of matches and the small number of no voters required (65 of the 72 current League clubs need to agree to this) should mean this will have to go back to the drawing board for at least a substantial tweak.

Post by **happytorq** » 20 May 2016, 15:48

I think a lot of depends on what happens with sponsorship, etc. If a title sponsor for the league can be found to pay more for sponsoring these four divisions, that could conceivably make up some of the shortfall. Also, with 4 fewer games you could possibly make the case that you'd need a slightly smaller squad (i doubt that'd happen, myself, but it's feasible.)

The big positive for me is the reduction in the number of Tuesday night games. Especially for a club like ours which is pretty difficult to get to on a weeknight for away fans. Our attendance is always going to be noticeably less on Tuesday nights for that reason, so potentially only have one of those games a season is tempting. This is also in addition to the savings that would presumably be made in not having to book overnight stays for the team
for the longer away Tuesday games. (although I don't know how often we actually do this)

The point about lower ticket revenue is probably fair, although a large part of these proposals is a guarantee that clubs won't lose money. For that to happen they'll be asking for more money from the Premier League clubs, which is possible because those clubs also want to reduce fixture congestion (from league cups, FA cups etc) - and with the huge new deal next year, there's a pretty decent chance the 'solidarity payments' will increase to accomodate the extra division.

I mean, I think they should at least consider it rather than dismiss it out of hand. I don't imagine the football league just wrote ideas down for the fun of it.

SenorDingDong · Post by **SenorDingDong** » 20 May 2016, 16:02

Bear in mind that this is being driven by the Premier League, who are desperate to find a way of reducing the amount of games and bringing in a winter break in order to supposedly help their massively over paid primadonnas. This is shown by the fact that the initial discussions involved Premier League B teams possibly being involved (mentioned in yesterday's news stories and also about a year ago when the backlash halted the ideas). They want a unified standardised English calendar and better practice for their youth players and to hell with the effect on the Football League. This is why they tried and failed to insert B teams into the league structure and why they appear to have suceeded in getting them into the Football League Cup (no real loss).

The only way this should be allowed to happen is via more Premier League money being distributed to league clubs, and not just a little. A lot more.

Gullscorer · Post by **Gullscorer** » 20 May 2016, 19:07

Our chairman David Phillips makes a good point when he says the lower leagues should be regionalised. Travelling from one end of the country to the other to play in front of tiny crowds is not something any club needs.

And if we're going to restructure the leagues, I'd suggest the lower divisions should have 22 teams rather than 20 (i.e. a reduction of 2 from the current 24), with 4 promoted (2 from each regional league) and 4 relegated. So: Premiership, Championship, League One, League Two (N), League Two (S).

As for the National League, it will not be happy with the reduction in its status. But perhaps it should disappear altogether and merge with the Football League..

Glostergull · Post by **Glostergull** » 20 May 2016, 21:39

i was of the opinion that this was inevitable eventually but this plan would be thrown into total confusion if Premier league plans come to fruition at creating a Premier League 2

Plainmoor78 · Post by **Plainmoor78** » 21 May 2016, 02:09

Gullscorer wrote:Our chairman David Phillips makes a good point when he says the lower leagues should be regionalised. Travelling from one end of the country to the other to play in front of tiny crowds is not something any club needs.

As for the National League, it will not be happy with the reduction in its status. But perhaps it should disappear altogether and merge with the Football League..

These are both good points. If the lower Football League divisions were regionalized then a nationwide National League division looks pretty daft. Also what purpose does the National League actually serve now? It was created in 1979 as the Alliance Premier League to strengthen the chances of clubs gaining election to the Football League by having only club apply for election each season. Now with automatic relegation and promotion between the leagues this is now longer necessary.

leetufc · Post by **leetufc** » 21 May 2016, 09:55

Judging by the mixed reaction to the news I cannot see them getting the required 90% - especially as there were a small number of chairmen who were aggrieved that the first they heard of the plans was via the press release!

I am struggling to see the real benefits in the idea for any of the parties involved.

For clubs the lost income is going to outweigh the potential costs savings. Cost savings are likely going to be on saving travel and accommodation to an extra 4 away games which will probably total tens of thousands However the lost gate receipts from four extra home games are likely to be greater than that for most clubs, particularly those in the Championship and larger clubs in League One and Two.

For those clubs which yo-yo between the Championship and League One there will be the fact they are likely to fall into the second tier of 20, which will mean a vast recuction in the solidarity payment they receive (unless this is re-written and overhauled). Currently it's £2.3m to Championship rising to £3m next season compared to £360k rising to £450k which is a significant chunk of money that clubs could see taken away from them by the proposal.

There will be limited cost saving from 8 less games per year on the playing side as clubs will still need a matchday squad of 11+7.

So for clubs I can't see any great benefit in the proposals unless there is something else in the idea which hasn't been well publicised.

One of the mooted reasons behind this is help fixture congestion but for non-PL clubs I never hear of this as being a problem. I cannot see how this will help the PL as there will still be a need to complete 38 games, plus FA and League Cup and European fixtures where needed.

It won't help bring in a winter break at the top level for the same reason as above with the same number of games - so no benefit to the national team.

So ultimately struggling. I just wonder if the idea is being proposed to create 8 extra spaces for the PL 'B' teams - which would be hugely damaging for the English League structure. I also wonder if Celtic and Rangers may sniff an opportunity to come south of the border- although I imagine this would be a long shot.

lexusguy · Post by **lexusguy** » 21 May 2016, 15:31

What would be wrong with the top 2 divisions being 20 teams each with the bottom 2 divisions being regionalised with 24 teams each
Keeps everybody happy

Oh Fer Christ Sake · Post by **Oh Fer Christ Sake** » 21 May 2016, 17:24

happytorq wrote:
I mean, I think they should at least consider it rather than dismiss it out of hand. I don't imagine the football league just wrote ideas down for the fun of it.

This will sound an awful lot like the precise argument I've been commenting against on here for the last week or so, but... I'd say they probably wrote down whichever idea made them most money.

That said, I and many others have said for a few years now that the Conference is basically Division Five these days anyway. There are very few genuinely proper 'non-league' teams in it anymore. Although with jokers like FGR being artificially boosted, there are more than there should be.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » 21 May 2016, 20:28

Regional Divisions won't happen. There are too many teams in the Midlands and around London who don't see it as the big issue like we do.

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